Re: I get fancy and play bad
 

so I wasn't sure if the turn cr is such a great play. I thought he would bet lots of hands if I checked and I also thought I had the best hand. you are right though, since I don't know if he's calling me with top pair + turned flush draw or with the nut flush draw on the flop half the deck sucks on the river.

--turnipmonster

Re: I get fancy and play bad
 

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so I wasn't sure if the turn cr is such a great play. I thought he would bet lots of hands if I checked and I also thought I had the best hand. you are right though, since I don't know if he's calling me with top pair + turned flush draw or with the nut flush draw on the flop half the deck sucks on the river.

--turnipmonster

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i like the c/r for your exact thinking if stacks are shallower so you can check/push

Re: I get fancy and play bad
 

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fwiw, at the time I thought my main options were check call, check fold and bet fold in that order.

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This sounds about right. I agree with you that the spade is a very ugly card for you, as I think that many donkish villains will try to pull the classic, "I have a drawing hand but I'm going to pretend to think for a really long time about your turn raise so you think I have some sort of made hand and will pay me off when my flush hits" move, as it seems our guy is doing here.

Of course, we don't know if he has spades or clubs, or 67. There's also a fair chance that he has a weaker king or a set.

All things considered, however, I think I like your hierarchy of options. I'd check-call up to 500-600, unless I knew villain to be either a rock or a habitual bluffer, in which case I'd check-fold to a big bet, and call a bit more, respectively.

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whaddya think about the rest of the hand?

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I reraise preflop sometimes, but I don't mind just calling, either, especially in games like this, cause AK sucks to play out of position unless you flop to it, and the donks aren't going anywhere preflop.

I like leading the flop.

I agree w/ BobboFitos about the turn CR. If you and villain were shallower, so that this was a stack-committing CR, then I like it lots. But as it is, it puts you in a really awkward spot on the river, when half the cards in the deck suck, and you're OOP against someone who is presumedly capable of bluffing scare cards. Any [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], any [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], any 3, any 8, and probably any Q, J, or 10 isn't going to make you happy. I prolly keep the lead and fire pot one more time.

-neon.

Re: I get fancy and play bad
 

ack i didn't see the clubs, check/folding seems weaker now, but then again what club draw does villain call with on flop? K high clubs is very possible, but that's it. anyway yeah amend what i said about check/folding, i'm torn between that and check/calling.

Re: I get fancy and play bad
 

Seems to me you are ahead, or tied with AK, 1/2 pot sounds nice, I think Id be hoping for a call

Re: I get fancy and play bad
 

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Seems to me you are ahead, or tied with AK, 1/2 pot sounds nice, I think Id be hoping for a call

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With the idea of doing what to villain's very probable push?

Personally, I think that pot control considerations and potentially inducing a bluff from villain far outweigh any thin value turnip might be missing out on by not betting here . . .

results
 

I agree with bob and neon and everyone that says the stacks are a little deep for the turn cr.

I check called 600 on the river after some thinking but in retrospect I think I should have given a little more credence to him playing the nut flush draw this way on the flop and turn. no one said it was a clear fold yet, but I think it may be closer than I think.

I really really felt dirty check calling the river, and immediately afterwards felt I should have folded.

--turnipmonster.

Re: I get fancy and play bad
 

the turn checkraise (particularly the amount) I find a little odd......what did you put him on?....if you thought you were ahead of a made hand, and the checkraise was for value, I'd probably bet the river and fold to a raise....if you put him on air, I might've just called the turn bet and then checked the river (calling anything of course)....(although, even given the line you took if you still had him on air on the turn, I think you should check/call the river).....

if you had him on some kind of draw or weren't quite sure, I would've either check/called turn and check/called river just for pot control purposes OR I would've checkraised the turn huge - much bigger than the amount you chose and an amount that committed me.....I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like your turn checkraise just bloated the pot and put villain in a spot to make life tough for you (particularly because he's got position/the table description you gave)......what were this guy's bluffing tendencies anyway?....

Re: I get fancy and play bad
 

hey man, hope all is well. I put him on something like KQ and thought he might have picked up a draw on the turn. I didn't think he would bluff that often and felt comfortable folding to a raise.

--turnipmonster

Re: results
 

i said i would check fold. am i no one? i'm going to go cry in the corner.