Re: Did I suck out on this??? Odds question>>>
 

I was sweating bullets and really hated cold calling all the way but the odds kept telling me to stay. BTW as I look at SSHE loose games guide it says to limp in early position w KJo.

Re: Did I suck out on this??? Odds question>>>
 

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I was sweating bullets and really hated cold calling all the way but the odds kept telling me to stay. BTW as I look at SSHE loose games guide it says to limp in early position w KJo.

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Where do you find loose 1/2 games on party? I almost never sit at a table that averages 6 players to the flop. Generally it is 3-4 players with the occasional 8 player LPfest hand. Was this table averaging that many players to the flop (this hand had only 5)? If not, you should be using the tight games guide which says only play KJo from middle position or later.

Re: Did I suck out on this??? Odds question>>>
 

You are right. I've been playing .5/1 so long i forgot about the other table. I will make that adjustment. Thank you!

Re: Did I suck out on this??? Odds question>>>
 

I think you didn't suck out, BUT the double cold calling is gross, but it had to be done. I very rarely call a raise and fold to a reraise behind me. It seems very weak. GH.

Re: Did I suck out on this??? Odds question>>>
 

looks fine, I discout your outs a bit due to the flush possibility if the 8h or Qh comes and the fact that you could tie with another J if the 8 comes. still I think you're good.

Re: Did I suck out on this??? Odds question>>>
 

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Preflop is a raise or fold situation. Unsuited high cards play better against fewer opponents, so I'd raise preflop.

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Uggh... I don't think I'd ever raise KJo UTG. If you get called, you're a dog, IMO.

It is true that unsuited high cards play better against fewer opponents, and yes I would raise KJo in late position to isolate a loose limper, but I would not raise it UTG. I really really don't like that idea.

KO

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I was going to say something in my post about raising KJo from EP generally being a bad idea for exactly those reasons, but sometimes (if you're at a weak-tight 8-handed table that respects your raises too much and you're a good post-flop player) I don't think it's a horrible idea.

KJs on the other hand, I'm raising every time.

And all due respect to Mr. Miller, but I'd rather gnaw off my left arm than limp KJo in any position. In HEPFAP, Sklansky talks about limping marginal hands like KJo in loose games to keep the pot small and prevent your opponent's play from being closer to correct, but if someone raises behind you it'll be really hard figuring out where you're at and too often you'll be paying off with the second best hand.

Re: Did I suck out on this??? Odds question>>>
 

Post-grunch edits: I missed the double-belly buster and miscalculated pot odds on the turn (they're actually 12.5:2 or 6.25:1). Calling turn is good with your implied odds. Nice hand!

Flop: Calls are good. I count 8 outs. 4 for gutshot. 1.5 for BDFD. 2.5 for overcards (discounted from 6). Thus, you are 5-1 to make your hand on the flop. Immediate pot odds are 7-to-1 on first call and 9-1 on second call. So I call.

Turn: Call is wrong. I count 6.5 outs. 4 for gutshot. 2.5 for overcards (discounted from 6). Thus, you are a little under 7-1 to make your hand on the turn. Immediate pot odds oare 5.25-to-1. So I fold.

River: You made your draw. Nice c/r. I would have done the same -- it certainly looked like you win and that it would not get checked through, allowing you to put in a winning c/r.

Re: Did I suck out on this??? Odds question>>>
 

You played this hand perfectly, only thing that's close is whether to raise preflop or not but I think limping is a good option here.

Re: Did I suck out on this??? Odds question>>>
 

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I was going to say something in my post about raising KJo from EP generally being a bad idea for exactly those reasons, but sometimes (if you're at a weak-tight 8-handed table that respects your raises too much and you're a good post-flop player) I don't think it's a horrible idea.

KJs on the other hand, I'm raising every time.

And all due respect to Mr. Miller, but I'd rather gnaw off my left arm than limp KJo in any position. In HEPFAP, Sklansky talks about limping marginal hands like KJo in loose games to keep the pot small and prevent your opponent's play from being closer to correct, but if someone raises behind you it'll be really hard figuring out where you're at and too often you'll be paying off with the second best hand.

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Well, personally I think they're both right.

Sklansky was talking about Hold'em in general, which I take to mostly be mid-limit games, where the average player will play a little smarter.

Miller was talking about small stakes in particular, where the average person will play too many hands, go too far with their hands, and make a lot of mistakes. KJo is a MUCH better hand than the junk they will play. If you have a table of thinking players, then yah, KJo needs to go by the wayside.

I think in micro-limits limping KJo early is just fine. But yes, you have to play well post-flop and know thine enemy.

KO

Re: Did I suck out on this??? Odds question>>>
 

Of course you can't fold, but I might raise first time on the flop, you have two overcards also which might be clean outs and if that is true you have a ton of equity.

The rest is standard though I might lead the river.

-DeathDonkey