Re: Looking for individual to help with bot
 

Hey, I got an account on E*Trade all set up, but it turns out that I don't know when to buy or sell. Can someone help me fix this little detail?

eastbay

Re: Looking for individual to help with bot
 

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Hey, I got an account on E*Trade all set up, but it turns out that I don't know when to buy or sell. Can someone help me fix this little detail?

eastbay

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Sure hope your investing all those SNG Analyzer profits [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: No Moral High Ground For You, Dude
 

I'm not worried about a single bot. What I'm worried about is if someone writes a winning bot and all the poor players out there find it, all of a sudden, you are sitting at a table of 9 other good players instead of 5-7 fish.

Also, I do not consider what I do exploitation. I'm not conning anyone out of their money. They choose to sit down at that table. I simply made the choice to spend hundred of hours studying and learning to give me an edge.

Your comparison is way off as well. Someone choosing to sit down at a poker table, fully knowing that they may lose everything in front of them is entirely different than mugging retarded or senile people. How did you even think this would be similar?

If OP wanted to develop a bot for the challenge, or to put it against other bots on a bot designated site, then that's fine. However, OP obviously wants to have his bot play poker and win money for him. Not only is this against every poker site's TOS, but it is cheating.

Let's make a similar comparison. Someone develops a robot that can play perfect golf. This robot can accurately calculate everything needs to hit the ball exactly where it wants with uncanny accuracy. Should this robot be able to play on the PGA Tour? Would the players who've spent their entire lives perfecting their game have the right to complain about this? I would certainly hope that people would see the problem with this.

It's completely different to use technology to develop better golf clubs, improve your swing, etc, as long as the ultimate responsibility for play is on the human. This is similar to the player assisting apps we have (PokerTracker, PA Hud, etc). Poker bots would be identical to this golf robot, only worse because the golf robot wouldn't be easily duplicated.

Re: Looking for individual to help with bot
 

Any half ass decent programmer can write the botcode (screen reading, clicking and so on). But to write the AI part that will win you money, that is what separates the 1337 from the rest.

Re: No Moral High Ground For You, Dude
 

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And since your "livelihood" is a pure form of exploitation...
Consisting of taking money away from the halt and the lame...
The rough equivalent of mugging retarded or senile people...
There is absolutely no "moral high ground" for you to stand on.

Adapt or Die.

rm+

[img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

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Was this post serious? I was about to add you to the ignore list, then I saw the smilies and assumed no one could be this hopeless, so you must be kidding.

Re: No Moral High Ground For You, Dude
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not worried about a single bot. What I'm worried about is if someone writes a winning bot and all the poor players out there find it, all of a sudden, you are sitting at a table of 9 other good players instead of 5-7 fish.

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Are you also concerned about the 70,000 people that have read SSH? Or, that more and more people will take the time to educate themselves on their play as you have?

A bot is only as good as the programmer that designed the AI algorithms. There are bots already playing on online sites. If you are a good player, what are you worried about... your just going to evaluate its actions like any other player, and exploit its weaknesses.

If you are going to continue to be successful as a poker player, you will have to adapt to the changing environment, not be fearful of it.

That you find the idea of bots disturbing, should be a warning sign that you need to enhance your game.

Re: No Moral High Ground For You, Dude
 

Most people who play don't know any better. They think it's gambling just like any other casino game. There are some players who realize there's more to the game. At this point, they have to make the effort to buy/borrow the books and spend hours of their spare time reading and thinking about what they are reading. Out of the 70k people who've purchased SSH, how many do you think actually read it all? Out of those who did, how many actually comprehended what they read? Out of those, how many actively used what they comprehended in their game?

Out of those 70k people, only a small percentage of them become better players because of it. However, if those same 70k people downloaded a poker bot, every single last one of them would have the advantage with no effort.

Yes, a bot is only as good as its programmer. If there is one or two bots at a table, that's fine. However, when it's 8 bots against two humans with the bots playing mathematically perfect poker, how much do you think the humans are going to win?

Just like I don't want to play at a table full of sharks, I do not want to play at a table full of bots. If you enjoy playing against a table full of sharks, more power to you. I'd prefer to play at a table where I have a huge edge over most of the players. You win more money that way.

So basically, I'm not afraid to play against bots. What I'm worried about is bots becoming wide spread and the fish disappearing. It would really suck if online poker became nothing but a bunch of bots swapping their money back and forth with some pros trying to scrape what little off the top they can manage.

Re: No Moral High Ground For You, Dude
 

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Most people who play don't know any better. They think it's gambling just like any other casino game. There are some players who realize there's more to the game. At this point, they have to make the effort to buy/borrow the books and spend hours of their spare time reading and thinking about what they are reading. Out of the 70k people who've purchased SSH, how many do you think actually read it all? Out of those who did, how many actually comprehended what they read? Out of those, how many actively used what they comprehended in their game?

Out of those 70k people, only a small percentage of them become better players because of it. However, if those same 70k people downloaded a poker bot, every single last one of them would have the advantage with no effort.

Yes, a bot is only as good as its programmer. If there is one or two bots at a table, that's fine. However, when it's 8 bots against two humans with the bots playing mathematically perfect poker, how much do you think the humans are going to win?

Just like I don't want to play at a table full of sharks, I do not want to play at a table full of bots. If you enjoy playing against a table full of sharks, more power to you. I'd prefer to play at a table where I have a huge edge over most of the players. You win more money that way.

So basically, I'm not afraid to play against bots. What I'm worried about is bots becoming wide spread and the fish disappearing. It would really suck if online poker became nothing but a bunch of bots swapping their money back and forth with some pros trying to scrape what little off the top they can manage.

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I really don't think bots are that big a deal. Games are all about 2-4 weak players and getting into pots with them. Almost all your earn comes from this. Game selection is all the protection you need from bots. The bots will not be able to play perfect poker vs the weak players, only vs the field and the stats. You will always be better at beating the weak, and especially very weak players than the bot. My only concern about bots is that they will scare away new recreational gamblers.

Re: No Moral High Ground For You, Dude
 

[ QUOTE ]
So basically, I'm not afraid to play against bots. What I'm worried about is bots becoming wide spread and the fish disappearing. It would really suck if online poker became nothing but a bunch of bots swapping their money back and forth with some pros trying to scrape what little off the top they can manage.

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Dont worry about it too much. Bots are hard to create, but incredibly easy to test for. Just look at what party does. They have a certain set of indicators to see if a bot use is suspected, and if it is, they just start throwing that user CAPTCHAs every now and again.

Re: Looking for individual to help with bot
 

Why is making a bot so difficult? I've read SSH and I feel like making a bot that can play according to the guidelines of SSH would primarily just involve programming a series of heuristics. There would be challenges along the way, no doubt, but conceptually this does not seem like it would be *that* difficult.