Re: Help: How to convince my gf NOT to play to get her money back
 

I have my own system about that kind of thing.
When i loose i dont care i fool myself that i never had them [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] It is gone so i always try to forget when i loose .

Re: Help: How to convince my gf NOT to play to get her money back
 

Actually, you're not trying to convince her to get her money back. You're completely confident that she'll get her money back --with good reason, since she's a long term winner.

However, any decent player knows to optimize their return by playing when/where conditions are as good as possible. That is part of a good player's discipline, and if you're playing without that discipline, you're playing without discipline. There's no way to make that sound like a good thing.

How many poker scams and skillful stings consist of getting a player a bit in the hole and then skinning them alive? Lots. How many are based on letting a player go home to rest recuperate, and treturn to make a clear-headed choice of table and game? None. Guess why.

Sure, sometimes you'll be down, even at a good table, but she's not saying "I want to stay because I know the conditions are great here", she's saying I *have to* get my money back (right here, right now; not tomorrow or the next day). That's an undesirable compulsion. that's letting a table tell you when to play, not the other way around.

It also suggests an exploitable insecurity. You want her to step away when the empirical evidence suggests that conditions may not be idea. You have faith that she'll win. Her thinking is based on something different. Quite a few financial advisors (I think Suzy Ormand is the best known) have shown how people fail to make money, or cripple their own returns because of inner pscychological issues and symbolisms. Fixing them is the first step to greater profits in the short, medium and long term.

How often do we look at the play of the top pros (or world leaders or CEOs, etc.) and see very obvious leaks? They may be worlds better than us, but that doesn't mean they don't make basic mistakes or have fundamental flaws. It's not insulting to have a basic leak; "basic" doesn't mean "first greade rookie error", it means "deriving from a fundamental aspect of the game". It may be possible for the best players to transcend the fundamentals of the game, to "float" -- but when you're losing, you ain't a-doing it. End of story

OF COURSE, she has always eventually make back her money. She's very good. However, when the table controls you, rather than the other way around, you're on tilt, out of control in some way. No one transcends tilt. That's what tilt means: letting events transcend YOU. You can get lucky, sure, but you're still on tilt (and often bad luck tilt plus luck leads to an equally dangerous good luck tilt)

The real problem is: what happens when she doesn't "make it back tonight" -- which is bound to happen someday. The same unaddressed underlying psychological issues that compell her play will likely lead to further undesirable play. She didn't "make it back" that day, so she'd be doubly pressured to make it back the next.

Isn't that the basis for half the nightmare runs of the legendary names? NO ONE is above Risk of Ruin.

Of course, she'll make it back. There's no question of that. So why must she do it under conditions that don't appear favorable? Maybe she's tired or sick or fallen into bad pattern or misread the players or is more bothered than she realizes by something in her life. Maybe her boyfriend is a jerk. Maybe she's pregnant. Maybe the players are colluding.

What isn't a maybe is this: she's good enough that she'll win in the long run. There's no need to do it now.

Nobody wins a head-up match against the unknown factors of the universe. That's why we're mortal. No one can't improve. Believing, even tangentially, that you can't (or don't need to) change can be the first page of a bad story.

When a GF has helped me deal with an issue that has been plaguing me, it's always been a great gift (however much I may have fought it). Usually it pays back great divvidends in the form of a slightly less screwed up BF (No woman could fix ALL my neuroses; a team of European brain specialists couldn't make a dent with anything less than a .44 mag.)

Of course, you have issues on your side, too. I have no idea what they may be, but you can't be free of them, any more than giraffes can jumprope. Still, it sounds like your heart is in the right place. Good luck.

Re: Help: How to convince my gf NOT to play to get her money back
 

Thanks.

While i appreciate Affleckkgb's pinpoint insight and stunning analysis, I think the biggest help is to explain to her "of course you'll get it back."

I like it for a couple reasons. First, she WILL. I havent stressed that to her, but i know it and she knows it.

Second, it gives her confidence, and lets her know i still have confidence in her. Not just in her play, but in her desire to improve her game always.

Third, and perhaps best of all, it empowers her to CONTROL when and where she gets it back. I find the best way to get someone to do something is to lead her 90% of the way and let her take that last step. Feeling like you are the one who thought of it yourself makes you more likely to go with it.

Thanks. Anything else, i'm all ears, in case this doesnt work.

Re: Help: How to convince my gf NOT to play to get her money back
 

[ QUOTE ]
I find the best way to get someone to do something is to lead her 90% of the way and let her take that last step. Feeling like you are the one who thought of it yourself makes you more likely to go with it.


[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't convinced of your being a controlling codependent until I read the above.

Re: Help: How to convince my gf NOT to play to get her money back
 

oooooookay. Thanks. I guess.

I will admit to having a sorta controlling personality.

However, in this instance, i think the general consensus is that i am trying to get her to do something that is, objectively, in her best interest.

I wont bore you all with obvious examples of trying to get, cajole, coax, persuade, force someone to do something that is undeniably in her best interest.

So, for those who agree that what i am trying to do is good for her, or for those who have friends who press to get their money back and are looking for a good strategy to help that person, I am still soliciting help.

Thanks in advance.

Re: Help: How to convince my gf NOT to play to get her money back
 

Your girlfriend plays poker professionally at 15/30? This world is unfair.... i don't even have a girlfriend at the moment.

Re: Help: How to convince my gf NOT to play to get her money back
 

Does she play losing poker when she is stuck ?

Re: Help: How to convince my gf NOT to play to get her money back
 

Good question.

By "losing" poker, i assume you mean "losing money, net" as opposed to "playing like a loser, fish, suboptimally." The difference may be slight, or there may be no difference, but I am convinced that the latter is definitely true, based upon watching her play and hearing the hand recaps after a losing-and-trying-to-climb-back session.

I actually dont know. and neither does she. I do have two observations, which she wont deny. First, she gets her money back less than half the time during that same session. Second, she occasionally gets all or most of her money back, (winning poker, or just a reversal of her running bad? not sure) keeps playing, and starts to slip back down instead of making it all the way. Put another way, she plays to get ALL of her money back, not most.

Maybe we should figure a way to keep track of that. If it turns out not to be good, she would have to stare the numbers in the face and (hopefully) decide not to press so hard.

Re: Help: How to convince my gf NOT to play to get her money back
 

A poker pro girlfriend...

Id give 150 15/30 BBs for one of those...

Re: Help: How to convince my gf NOT to play to get her money back
 

[ QUOTE ]
To her credit, she always believes that she loses money because she is not playing as well as she could.

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously this is an important mindset to have for poker, but I've also found it easier to leave a table when losing or convince a friend to leave a table when losing by acknowledging that

there may be a reason out of my control that I'm doing things incorrectly, like misreading other players or not knowing that they all have reads on me..
and the only thing to do about it is to stand up and come back the next day.

I still think the only times you should be spending real long sessions in one place are when you're making a killing. Why make reasons to stay at a losing table?