Re: Isolating a TAG
 

What is the weakest hand that you'd make this iso-raise with?

Re: Isolating a TAG
 

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My range for Villian here was something along the lines of Axs, Kxs, 22-88, possibly suited connectors/one-gaps.

Put yourself in Villian's shoes. What range are you putting me on when I raise PF and raise the flop.


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So assuming you have a tight image, he's going to put you on a premium hand. And when an AKx flops and you raise him he's going to assume he's in some trouble, since he's not going to have you on a flush draw because you're not raising PF from EP w/ KQs or lower. Agreed?

So based on the range you have him on and the range he presumably has you on, what do you think he's donk betting the turn with?

Re: Isolating a TAG
 

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What is the weakest hand that you'd make this iso-raise with?

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It depends on his postflop play and the blind's tightness/looseness. I'm apt to raise with my standard hands in this situation, though. KTs+, ATo+, A9s+, 77+ type of stuff. Depends on what I think of his game postflop.

Isolating TAGs is something that should only be done when the TAG isn't really a TAG, but more of a tight, selective preflop player who sucks and likes to give up postflop.

Rob

Re: Isolating a TAG
 

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Isolating TAGs is something that should only be done when the TAG isn't really a TAG, but more of a tight, selective preflop player who sucks and likes to give up postflop.

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I operate under the general assumption that a 2/4 TAG - at least statistically and until proven otherwise - generally fits this category. It's not neccessarily that they suck - but more so that they're very predictable. Which leads to this post given that I felt his turn stop'n'go was not something I felt was predictable.

Re: Isolating a TAG
 

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Isolating TAGs is something that should only be done when the TAG isn't really a TAG, but more of a tight, selective preflop player who sucks and likes to give up postflop.

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I operate under the general assumption that a 2/4 TAG - at least statistically and until proven otherwise - generally fits this category. It's not neccessarily that they suck - but more so that they're very predictable. Which leads to this post given that I felt his turn stop'n'go was not something I felt was predictable.

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His turn stop and go generally means that he thinks you're on a flush draw because he sucks at reading hands, or that he just hit 2pr with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and is hoping to bet-3bet your ass.

I honestly think you're behind here no the turn often enough to fold against the sort of player you're assuming you're up against.

Rob

Re: Isolating a TAG
 

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So based on the range you have him on and the range he presumably has you on, what do you think he's donk betting the turn with?

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My turn range for him (in order of likeliehood, IMO): A9s-A2s, K9, K8, 98, 88, 99, JTs, 67s, Kxs. I probably missed a couple but that's close.

I thought I had a a reasonable chance at holding the best hand. And a decent chance to improve if I didn't (including hidden outs to a chop or take the lead). I had position so I was guaranteed to see showdown for 2BBs at the most.

Someone had suggested the idea of raising the turn for a free showdown. I don't think that would be correct here because I want to see a showdown and raising the turn would force me into folding to a 3-bet. I'm not defending my call-call line because I'm not sure that's right either - but, I'm pretty confident that spewing extra chips when you're in a state of confusion isn't a very good idea.

Re: Isolating a TAG
 

I think you are taking this isolation thing too far.

Re: Isolating a TAG
 

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I was almost positive that I was ahead with top pair on the flop

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Just curious why you felt this. Was there some history between you both?

There's no need to call this down after he bets the turn. You've shown plenty of strength and he keeps betting. The least he could have on the turn is K-X [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], but that's not likely. He may be betting with the intention of 3 betting you when you raise with 9-9, or he is testing the waters with two pair or some suited ace that is better than yours.

If I were in your shoes I would have called down from the flop on with no raises at all. Betting a draw into a board like that doesn't make sense with a tight player, and if you are ahead, you don't want to scare him off anything else.

edit - I like the idea of isolating the weak tighties, but you might want a little more hand than this in case one of the blinds has something.

Re: Isolating a TAG
 

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UTG+1 was a TAG.

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My turn range for him (in order of likeliehood, IMO): A9s-A2s, K9, K8, 98, 88, 99, JTs, 67s, Kxs. I probably missed a couple but that's close.

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None of this makes sense to me, and I think your isolation move is a bad one. TAG's don't limp first in with crap, and a big chunk of those hands are crap -- especially the way your table seems to play, with a whole bunch of folding and no limping. In fact, the only limper here is the supposed TAG.

If a TAG limps up front, it's usually a small to mid-pocket pair, or a low-suited ace. You're behind all of those. And that's -if- he limps, which, if he's a TAG, he probably wont.

Some will limp with KQs and KJs, but most TAGs are raising the KQ and dumping the KJs depending on the game.

Nothing about your plan makes sense to me. You isolated a good player with a bad hand and then take an approach designed to pay him off.

ElSapo

Re: Isolating a TAG
 

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So based on the range you have him on and the range he presumably has you on, what do you think he's donk betting the turn with?

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My turn range for him (in order of likeliehood, IMO): A9s-A2s, K9, K8, 98, 88, 99, JTs, 67s, Kxs. I probably missed a couple but that's close.

I thought I had a a reasonable chance at holding the best hand. And a decent chance to improve if I didn't (including hidden outs to a chop or take the lead). I had position so I was guaranteed to see showdown for 2BBs at the most.

Someone had suggested the idea of raising the turn for a free showdown. I don't think that would be correct here because I want to see a showdown and raising the turn would force me into folding to a 3-bet. I'm not defending my call-call line because I'm not sure that's right either - but, I'm pretty confident that spewing extra chips when you're in a state of confusion isn't a very good idea.

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I suggested the idea of raising the turn, but only after you call the flop (and again, this is dependent on whether or not you think TAG is aggressive enough to bet a draw).

After you raise the flop, your turn range is WAY too wide for him. He's got you beat pretty often and while calling down is better than raising (after your flop play), folding is probably better than calling.

This is why I fold A2o after a TAG limps.

Rob