Re: A concept I don\'t understand
 

Two people behind him. If against the blind it's an easy bet on the flop and probably turn as well.

Re: A concept I don\'t understand
 

yeah i thought he was just against the blinds from his origninal post.

Re: A concept I don\'t understand
 

In the case where I do have the best hand, I would think I am dealing with severe reverse implied odds. Yes, no?

I'm glad to see that not everyone thinks this is a clear bet, but I'm wondering why SSH says that it is.

Re: A concept I don\'t understand
 

A bet here would be called most likely with overcards or a pair. Nobody is going to slow play (rarely) a pair of 10s.
So if you get C/R'ed, fold. If you get called, and they check the turn (showing weakness), you would probably want to bet again since you most likely have the best hand now.

Now, TPTK might call you down to the flop, but wouldnt any TPTK here have showed more aggression PF, or at least by the turn? I would think so, but i aint rich from poker yet, its just my take on the advice.

Edit: with 5 players, any action on the turn is a definite fold for me. Also your flop bet may thin the field.

I say its an probe bet if anything.

Re: A concept I don\'t understand
 

[ QUOTE ]
In the case where I do have the best hand, I would think I am dealing with severe reverse implied odds. Yes, no?

I'm glad to see that not everyone thinks this is a clear bet, but I'm wondering why SSH says that it is.

[/ QUOTE ]

IIRC, SSHE says to bet against few opponents when checked to. This is a different situation due to the # of opponents.

Re: A concept I don\'t understand
 

Hand quiz, page 270 of SSHE.
You limp under the gun with 7h7s. Two players limp behind you, the small blind calls, and the big blind checks (5 small bets). The flop is Jc 6c 4s. The small blind bets and the big blind calls.

Fold. The pot is small. Two players like their hands enough to bet and call. Two more are yet to act.

...

(Important: There is a big difference between betting and calling. Pocket pairs just above the second highest flop card exemplify this point. In this example if the hand had been checked to you, you should definately bet.)

Re: A concept I don\'t understand
 

Since you're out of position, why not just check on the flop and use the action behind you to judge where you're at?

If there is any significant action then just check/fold. If it gets checked around or checked to a late position better who you feel may be trying to steal the pot then check raise and bet the turn (feel free to let me know if you think that's too aggro). If the flop gets checked around entirely then a turn bet against a brick (admittedly any card 8 or above is not really a brick. But even if an overcard comes that is not a guarantee that it hit one of your opponents) would be appropriate IMO. In late position though, given the same action and board I'd definately bet the flop.

The difference between the example in SSH and here is that in that hand (page 270) you were able to use the betting in front of you to gain information. Here that is not possible.

Re: A concept I don\'t understand
 

The only way I am continuing here is if it's checked around and a total rag hits the turn, or if it's checked to the last player, he bets, the SB and BB fold to me, and I can CR him to (probably) get it heads up.

~ Tilts

Re: A concept I don\'t understand
 

[ QUOTE ]
Since you're out of position, why not just check on the flop and use the action behind you to judge where you're at?

[/ QUOTE ]
The reason is that if you have the best hand, the action behind you may check all the way around and then you just gave a free card to a large field many of whom have a good number of outs to beat you.

I'm not saying that I think checking is wrong, just that that is the reason why you would bet.

Re: A concept I don\'t understand
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Since you're out of position, why not just check on the flop and use the action behind you to judge where you're at?

[/ QUOTE ]
The reason is that if you have the best hand, the action behind you may check all the way around and then you just gave a free card to a large field many of whom have a good number of outs to beat you.

I'm not saying that I think checking is wrong, just that that is the reason why you would bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is the reasoning.

But given that an overcard is very likely to come on the turn, are we going to check/fold to an overcard? Otherwise, there seem to be, again, reverse implied odds involved.