Re: Did I cheat?
 

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The funny part is even with all that information, you still misplayed the hand.

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I'm no NL pro, but that's exactly what I was thinking as well. He's got an OESD and you smooth-call his flop bet? The small bet on the turn I can see, if you were trying to tempt him into checkraising all-in as a semibluff.

But hey, I suck at NL.

Re: Did I cheat?
 

here is my completely illogical rule:

- if somebody is old, female, or nice, i'll tell 'em at least once and make a very determined effort not to look
- if somebody is close enough to me - has some experience, not old, male, i'll tell 'em once and then if i see cards, so be it
- if somebody's being a dick, i'm not saying anything and i'll take a little peak now and then, esp. if i have my sunglasses on and i don't think i'll get caught.

this guy sounds like a dick. also, i would raise the river if i were positive what he had to give him the chance to re-bluff so i could make an "amazing" call with one pair.

Re: Did I cheat?
 

I too have seen similar situations. Here is my two cents:

Yes, it is the responsibility of each player to properly conceal his/her cards. However, often a player will think the cards are concealed when in fact they are not. This gives certain players an added advantage. Moreover, as time passes most people (myself included) will be more and more inclined to go for the peak when possible. This puts you in an unethical spot. I believe the honorable thing to do, therefore, is to alert the player that their cards are visable. You should not do this in the middle of a hand of course since you will be giving information out during a hand and the information is already known to you as it is. Clearly, you will not continue with your KK if you happen to notice that the raiser on your left has AA. So, I wait till the hand is done and let them know. Poker should be played honorably and you should win based on skill, not because you can see your oponent's cards.

Re: Did I cheat?
 

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Poker should be played honorably and you should win based on skill, not because you can see your oponent's cards.

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Doesn't exposing hole cards demonstrate a lack of the skill that you feel is important to win honorably? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
The poker table is the Survival of the Fittest. I, too, point out to the pretty lady, grandma and newbie next to me that they are exposing their cards, but if someone can't follow good advice, it might as well be me raking in their chips rather the guy sitting on their left. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Did I cheat?
 

I love this post. You didn't cheat. But you do suck at poker. Raise the flop, bet the turn enough to price out his straight draw. And if you want to be cute, call the river. Smarter play, though, is to raise and then DON'T show your hand. What the hell were you thinking showing your irrational play?

Re: Did I cheat?
 

i agree with the " one warning rule", but I wouldn't be mad if someone was able to see my cards and didn't tell me. there is money at stake, people do worse things than look at someones whole cards for money.

Re: Did I cheat?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I love this post. You didn't cheat. But you do suck at poker. Raise the flop, bet the turn enough to price out his straight draw. And if you want to be cute, call the river. Smarter play, though, is to raise and then DON'T show your hand. What the hell were you thinking showing your irrational play?

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Wow, I find all this criticism of my play very entertaining. I don't think I played the hand perfectly, probably the result of playing at 6AM and not often being in a situation where I know my opponents hand, and then acting too quickly. Not that I had been asking about strategy, or I would have provided more specific detail, but here is my rationale anyway...

preflop
villain utg+1 raises to 15 (crazy lag with the table covered)
hero utg+2 calls 15 with QJ offsuit (~500 in stack)

I had been playing very tight and only called here because of huge implied odds

Flop Q 10 x, two clubs
This is where I see villains J-9
he bets 40
I call

Turn blank
villain checks, hero bets 50, villain calls

At this point I have absolutely no interest in pushing him off his hand because there is clearly no chance I will pay him off, but a large chance I can get him to pay me off, most likely by pairing one of his cards, or by bluffing a scare card...

River A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] completing the flush draw
Villain insta-bets 100, representing a flush I know he does not have
I min raise to 200, specifically to leave half my stack behind so he might make a move.
Unfortunately he turbo-mucked.

I showed my cards cause he was a jerk and was convinced I had the flush, but also cause I knew I was getting up from the table in two hands anyway to leave the city. So I was not too worried about table image at that point.

Anyway, please tell me a line that makes me more money. I think I could have raised the flop or bet more on the turn, but the whole point was to seem passive so he would get aggressive when I knew I had him beat. Ok, flame away.

Re: Did I cheat?
 

In a casino, I make the decision of whether to tell them or not based on the personality. Age and gender have no factor in my book. If somebody's clearly new, I'll warn them multiple times, but anybody else gets one warning max.

Anyone who has been warned (or is a jerk and doesn't deserve a warning), I'll peek at whenever they give me the opportunity. Hell, I'd peek at my own mother's cards (after warning her a few times) at the poker table.

In a home game, I make every effort not to look and warn every time. The difference is that in a home game, it's a much friendlier environment, and we have some players who are still learning. In a casino, it's about the money.

Re: Did I cheat?
 

bump for constructive crticism

Re: Did I cheat?
 

I will tell anybody one time. If it is a woman in her early 20s that is nice looking I'll tell her each time and make sure I don't look. And compliment her when she rakes a pot. Unless of course she is one of those that sits down and acts like she doesn't know what she is doing so she can hit and run.

If I see the cards I use the information and I am almost always ruthless about it. If they want to call me with the worst hand that is their problem, not mine. Granted I do not try to see their cards and I've only had it give me an unfair advantage twice in the past 6 months, so it makes no difference in the long run.

Last week I raised with QJs and the guy next to me looks at his cards and had K3o and the dealer saw him exposing them for about the 100th time. Somebody else asked what the cards were after they were in the muck. I waited until after the round of betting was complete to tell them, and I was backwards on my suits but that is expected, I just saw offsuit k3 both black. I think it is only right to give them that information, but I waited until the round was over because I did not think it was fair to me if I bet not knowing it, the guy next to me is a jackass, and his cards become exposed. The good thing is the dealer told the guy that if it happened again he was going to be dealt out.