Re: Abortion laws, is there a real argument?
 

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Yet these individuals almost unfailingly walk in lockstep idealogically with those who support abortion rights.

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You sure about that? That sentence sounds like it was taken right from the Sean Hannity playbook: "these guys are the same guys that ______________". Here's a tip: they are often not the same people!!

Name me one individual who is a tree hugger and an pro-choice activist. I'm sure they exist, but you're suggesting it's all of them. I call your bluff - name one.

-ptmusic

Re: Abortion laws, is there a real argument?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Yet these individuals almost unfailingly walk in lockstep idealogically with those who support abortion rights.

[/ QUOTE ]

You sure about that? That sentence sounds like it was taken right from the Sean Hannity playbook: "these guys are the same guys that ______________". Here's a tip: they are often not the same people!!

Name me one individual who is a tree hugger and an pro-choice activist. I'm sure they exist, but you're suggesting it's all of them. I call your bluff - name one.

-ptmusic

[/ QUOTE ]

jason llyod

Re: Abortion laws, is there a real argument?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Yet these individuals almost unfailingly walk in lockstep idealogically with those who support abortion rights.

[/ QUOTE ]

You sure about that? That sentence sounds like it was taken right from the Sean Hannity playbook: "these guys are the same guys that ______________". Here's a tip: they are often not the same people!!

Name me one individual who is a tree hugger and an pro-choice activist. I'm sure they exist, but you're suggesting it's all of them. I call your bluff - name one.

-ptmusic

[/ QUOTE ]

jason llyod

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Googled that - nothing. Misspelling? Anyway, if you're correct, that's great, but from what I've seen you are "intellectually honest" as Mr. Hannity would say. I was asking the guy who suggested that all tree huggers were pro-choice, because I'd like to see if he is "intellectually honest".

Re: Abortion laws, is there a real argument?
 

here's the thing...

I'm actually pro-life - but that extends across the board - that means I don't want the death penalty - which many prolifers have no problem with...LOL - funny how that works.

But I don't believe that life is before conception- (when the DNA decides all the important [censored]) - so I believe in birth control and sex education, which many pro-lifers, by virtue of their religion, don't believe in ...

so they bitch about how people are aborting babies while doing nothing to prevent the number that are being created and ergo aborted...

If you truly want to get into a discussion, it'd be way deeper then a discussion board, but let's start with this - a fetus is a human being - it's not a part of the mother, cause it has it's own DNA, internal organs, and structure - the only thing they share is their intake of air/food/water - so why does it deserve to die?

RB

Re: Abortion laws, is there a real argument?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Yet these individuals almost unfailingly walk in lockstep idealogically with those who support abortion rights.

[/ QUOTE ]

You sure about that? That sentence sounds like it was taken right from the Sean Hannity playbook: "these guys are the same guys that ______________". Here's a tip: they are often not the same people!!

Name me one individual who is a tree hugger and an pro-choice activist. I'm sure they exist, but you're suggesting it's all of them. I call your bluff - name one.

-ptmusic

[/ QUOTE ]

jason llyod

[/ QUOTE ]

Googled that - nothing. Misspelling? Anyway, if you're correct, that's great, but from what I've seen you are "intellectually honest" as Mr. Hannity would say. I was asking the guy who suggested that all tree huggers were pro-choice, because I'd like to see if he is "intellectually honest".

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He's just some dude I knew from college who was basically as desribed. only trying to suggest that coming up with a person who fit that bill would do nothing to help either of your cases.

In any event I tend to think that many/most of say peta members are also pro-choice. However I find it silly to say that because someone has x value (animal rights) that they then must have y value (pro life). These things are so complicated. Were dealing with things like when does our definition of being person begin and where is the line between cruelty to life and just using resources start and stop/

thus I don't have much of a problem with say a PETA extremest being pro choice other than completely disagreeing with the.

Re: Abortion laws, is there a real argument?
 

[ QUOTE ]
here's the thing...

I'm actually pro-life - but that extends across the board - that means I don't want the death penalty - which many prolifers have no problem with...LOL - funny how that works.

But I don't believe that life is before conception- (when the DNA decides all the important [censored]) - so I believe in birth control and sex education, which many pro-lifers, by virtue of their religion, don't believe in ...

so they bitch about how people are aborting babies while doing nothing to prevent the number that are being created and ergo aborted...

If you truly want to get into a discussion, it'd be way deeper then a discussion board, but let's start with this - a fetus is a human being - it's not a part of the mother, cause it has it's own DNA, internal organs, and structure - the only thing they share is their intake of air/food/water - so why does it deserve to die?

RB

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good post.

Re: Abortion laws, is there a real argument?
 

you want a good argument....

read "The Unaborted Socrates" - by Peter Kreeft - very, very good. - My Senior College Project was trying to do a radio adaption of it - failed the task miserably, but got a B for effort and graduated -

RB

Re: Abortion laws, is there a real argument?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Yet these individuals almost unfailingly walk in lockstep idealogically with those who support abortion rights.

[/ QUOTE ]

You sure about that? That sentence sounds like it was taken right from the Sean Hannity playbook: "these guys are the same guys that ______________". Here's a tip: they are often not the same people!!

Name me one individual who is a tree hugger and an pro-choice activist. I'm sure they exist, but you're suggesting it's all of them. I call your bluff - name one.

-ptmusic

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Alec Baldwin. Martin Sheen. Lots of Hollywood types. I'm not going to google them all. The ones I have a real beef with, the ones that resort to vandalism and violence, I of course don't have their names. The radicals tend to operate in secret, with good reason.

With that said, I perhaps used too wide a brushstroke. I have actually researched this issue a fair amount today and read several essays (long and boring) on animal rights websites that explore this issue. There is actually considerable conflict in the animal rights community over this, and the end result is the issue is generally swept under the rug to stave off dissention in the ranks. The consensus among animal rights groups seems to be that the animal and abortion rights issues are completely separate. I actually agree, but for very different reasons. I consider human life to be far more valuable than the life of a hedgehog. But that's another thread entirely.

Re: Abortion laws, is there a real argument?
 

Alec Baldwin and Martin Sheen qualify as far left liberals, but not as the tree huggers you were talking about.

But you acknowledged your broad brush strokes, so it's cool. If only Hannity would do the same.... ah, one can dream.

He and his callers just parrot the same broad brush strokes back and forth ("Sean you are so right. All these liberals _____________"), so Sean probably thinks it isn't even sweeping generalizations anymore.

-ptmusic

Re: Abortion laws, is there a real argument?
 

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I consider human life to be far more valuable than the life of a hedgehog.

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hedgehogs are pretty cool dude. ever heard of Sonic? He'd [censored] you up for something like that.