Re: The continuing river saga
 

edit: checks behind (mistyped "calls" - more coffee please)

I don't like the 2 overs, just because they aren't betting doesn't mean they haven't paired the J or Q. They may have gone passive due to heavy preflop action, fear of being outkicked, fear of an overpair (induced by preflop cap), retarded slowplay (JJ), etc.

I think vs 2 opponents in this spot you should take the free showdown.

Re: The continuing river saga
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hero is last to act. This is a straight-forward check. You're not going to get called by worse hands.

[/ QUOTE ]
you may, but the problem is that better hands than yours will also call (Jx, Qx) They're probably afraid you've got something big due to your pre-flop aggression.

if this is HU on the river, i bet it all day long. worse hands may be throwing a hail mary, hoping to chop Ax with you. plus, if you fold a worse hand, there's nothing wrong w/ establishing a little psychological bullying.

here, closing the action, I'd just take a free showdown.

Re: The continuing river saga
 

thanks I'm a dummy. Closing the action I like a check.

Re: The continuing river saga
 

[img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

-Jaran

Re: The continuing river saga
 

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I value bet because everyone is calling down and the five doesnt help anyone. If you check, you induce a bet then have to overcall, which I think is bad. So this is a case of if you are going to call a bet, bet it yourself.

No one agrees with me here, please explain why betting is bad (everyone only said why checking is good). Well, if you check, what do you do when someone bets?

[/ QUOTE ]

Betting is bad because only a better hand will call. Therefore it is not much of a "value" bet. And hero acts last here. He has the option of just checking behind. He won't have to face another bet. Checking is the right decision imo.

edit: Sorry, I didn't see all the responses. I see that this has been stated a few times already.

Re: The continuing river saga
 

Well, none of the obvious draws were completed by the last card, but there are two overs to your Tens. Will a worse hand call for one more bet? MP3 capped preflop, so I put him either on AK or another big pair which is likely bigger than yours, but for some reason he is too passive to bet/raise with it himself postflop, which makes it more likely that he has AK and he will not call another bet with Ace-high. UTG+1 has done nothing but check-call the entire time because he's too impressed by you and MP3. If UTG+1 is positionally aware at all, then he limped with something decent and either the Q or J hit him, though it's also possible he has a pocket pair like 77-99. If UTG+1 is a fish who will play any hand anywhere and call to the river with a pair of 5's then it would be an obvious value-bet, but we just don't know. Anyway, because MP3 is very unlikely to call with a worse hand, and UTG+1 is unknown and there are two overs to your Tens, I'm checking this through because I don't think you will be called by a worse hand more than 50% of the time (MP3 is almost never paying off with a worse hand).

Re: The continuing river saga
 

Knuckles to the table.

MP3 either has you crushed, or isn't calling with his AK. as for UTG+1, there are no draws on the flop, and he calls. Then the turn comes another overcard to your pair, and he calls again. That scares me enough to check behind on the river.

Re: The continuing river saga
 

Check behind. You aren't going to get a better hand to fold here, and there is no hand you beat that is likely to call given the previous action.

The importance of reads
 

I posted this hand for a couple of reasons. The first is a pretty basic example of a river check behind, and the reason I asked for why you would do what you suggested. The second is to stress the value of reads. After this hand, this river is a value bet against these two opponents. MP3 capped w/A3o, and UTG+1 called down w/K7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. This read pushes the river to a thin value bet, IMO, against these opponants.

-Jaran

Re: The importance of reads
 

Clearly, the +EV play is to add them to your buddy list.