Re: What to do?
 

Eh, I would be inclined to fold this turn without reads. Sucky situation, as you're not closing the action and a [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] on the river pwns you (if you're not already beat). But betting the turn would have been better.

Why is everyone saying fold? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: What to do?
 

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Why is everyone saying fold? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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Because they can't see that he's doubled gutted and think that he just has a gutshot nut straight draw.

Re: What to do?
 

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Why is everyone saying fold? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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Because they can't see that he's doubled gutted and think that he just has a gutshot nut straight draw.

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Good to see at least some people are learning some things from 2+2 [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: What to do?
 

[ QUOTE ]
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Why is everyone saying fold? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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Because they can't see that he's doubled gutted and think that he just has a gutshot nut straight draw.

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Good to see at least some people are learning some things from 2+2 [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

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These hands are admittedly tough to see if you don't have a lot of experience. I caught it right away but it might have been luck. It is also hard to spot wheel draws coming in sometimes.

Re: What to do?
 

[ QUOTE ]
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Why is everyone saying fold? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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Because they can't see that he's doubled gutted and think that he just has a gutshot nut straight draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good to see at least some people are learning some things from 2+2 [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

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These hands are admittedly tough to see if you don't have a lot of experience. I caught it right away but it might have been luck. It is also hard to spot wheel draws coming in sometimes.

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Actually thats true, I've had A high on more than one occassion with 2345 on the board and only called a river bet or even folded because I missed it.

Re: What to do?
 

[ QUOTE ]
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Why is everyone saying fold? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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Because they can't see that he's doubled gutted and think that he just has a gutshot nut straight draw.

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Good to see at least some people are learning some things from 2+2 [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

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I'm willing to admit that I missed the double-gut, but IMO that still doesn't make it good enough. Discount for the flush cards and that leaves 6 outs and you're only getting 6-1 from the pot on what's an almost 8-1 call. It's too late for my head to work out how many players you have to hold onto on the flop and turn for the implieds to work out right, so I'll just call it unlikely [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img].

Edited to correct the pot odds.

Re: What to do?
 

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These hands are admittedly tough to see if you don't have a lot of experience. I caught it right away but it might have been luck. It is also hard to spot wheel draws coming in sometimes.

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I will say, I'm much better at spotting them when I'm playing a hand than when I'm reviewing one, for some reason. I'm also a much better pool player after I've had a few drinks.

Re: What to do?
 

What about implied odds bozlax? Surely you can peel one here.

And I think that Hero has to call here on the turn. UTG could be betting his crappy two pair like KT and Button could be raising a set of eights or something.

Re: What to do?
 

Removing the K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]/9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] completely as outs is not correct. A flush draw will not always be out. I'd give Hero about 7-7.3 outs (guesstimate).

Re: What to do?
 

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What about implied odds bozlax? Surely you can peel one here.

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Sheeit. I said I wasn't going to figure that out! Ok, well, you lost 2 players on the flop, so if you didn't hit it on the turn you no longer had the odds to call a turn bet, even with implieds. There. Oh, wait, that's results-oriented. Ok, uh, unless you have a read that 3 of the other 4 players seeing the flop are going to call down (and you've already lost 1, so that means that everybody else has to stay in), you're not going to be able to make up enough to make the call. IMO.

As for calling the turn once you made your hand, about a lifetime ago (look up the thread a little bit), in my first response to this thread I said once you make your hand on the turn you have to call down...I'll amend that now to say you have to call down regardless of what falls on the river. Villan came alive on the flop, so he could be betting ace-rag, two pair, a set of 8s, anything. If he was on a flush draw on the flop, I'd think he might've been willing to let it check through, and only raised if he could trap the field for 2.