Re: Ethical question/ how to beat a \"beginner\"
 

It's legal; I don't know about ethical though. It is legal to talk to your opponent, lie about your hand, etc. But you're probably better off not making plays against someone who's asking for advice; I prefer the "I can't talk about strategy during a hand" approach, if I'm asked questions during play. If your friend wants to learn about cards, teach him later.

The other downside is that by making a play like this, you make a sucker look like a fool. Generally, that's not going to work in your favor, even if you do get to drag a larger pot because of it.

Re: Ethical question/ how to beat a \"beginner\"
 

(1) Watch out for guys like this. If anyone ever shows up with a list of the hand rankings, or asks if round-the-corner straights count; he's setting you up.

(2) "Ethical" does not mean nice. A surgeon afraid to cut into someone's body is useless. A judge who can't stand to make anyone suffer can't do his job. The best thing you could do for this guy is to say anything at all to get him to call your bet. Helping him out and feeling bad about it makes you an enabler; you enable him to stagger through life a little longer, until he runs into a situation where it costs him a lot more than all the money on the table. If you feel bad, give the profits to charity. If you give it back to him, you'll be responsible for his next disaster.

(3) I used to have feelings like this, not about people asking for advice, but about planning out home games so I could make maximum long-term profit; making money while I was pretending to be having fun. A wise mentor gave me a copy of Frank Wallace's "Advanced Concepts of Poker," and I've slept like a baby ever since.

(4) If you like the same kind of advice from a cooler source, rent "Pulp Fiction" and listen how Bruce Willis explains to Angela Jones why he isn't sorry that he killed his opponent in the boxing ring.

Re: Ethical question/ how to beat a \"beginner\"
 

Meh, I'd never do this but I can't see a major problem with it if your happy to look like a bit of an ass for the money. In the end it depends what you're in the game for, if the money from the game is important to you and you don't like the guys you play with fine. If you're friends with these people then thats a stupid way to play the hand. Firstly you'll piss off your friends for chump change, I can't believe you felt the good about getting the guy to call since you've posted it on here as an ethical question.

Personally I see low stakes games with my friends as a social experience. I raise more, bluff for, talk more and show a lot more hands than I would if playing 'properly'. I'll give anyone who asks good advice and usually if someone asks me what I had or how I would have played the hand if they raised I'll tell them the truth. Obviously I'm not as bigger winner as I could be but then
1.I still win
2.I have fun with my friends
3.Nobody minds losing money to me and the game stays together and I get invited back.

All that said of course this could simply be being lost in translation. If someone asked me why I'd go all in, I'd probably say 'well its likely to be a split but then its a big bet to call for half the pot. I'd probably fold but its up to you.' Which is precisely what I'd think if the positions were revered, then it would be their call.

Re: Ethical question/ how to beat a \"beginner\"
 

I'd have to say that in my opinion it was ethical. Ethics is concerned with "morality." Whether it was there right thing for you to do is more questionable.

Serveral other posters have written about the draw backs to your play. But they are not really addressed to the ethics of the question, but rather to the long term effects on the game and your image.

Some questions I have: What were the stakes at this game? Did your opponent's call significantly effect his spending money? Was there much difference betwen going all in and making a moderately sized bet?

Re: Ethical question/ how to beat a \"beginner\"
 

I wish my opponents would sincerely ask me what I think they should do with their hands?

Re: Ethical question/ how to beat a \"beginner\"
 

Don-
As this was a while ago, I'm not sure exactly what we were playing-- but it is usually low buy in or a small single table tourney... usually only 5 or 10 bucks each-- go ahead and laugh i don't care...so it wasn't like it was really going to have any big effects on his spending money or anything. The All-In just made it more dramatic and interesting i guess. I figured that he would call, so i might as well bet as much as possible.
THanks for the help.

Re: Ethical question/ how to beat a \"beginner\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
I was on the BB and checked after all but 1 limped in.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
2. the entire hand was just the two of us from the start

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Ethical question/ how to beat a \"beginner\"
 

Why didn't you just tell him to ask one of the observers who had already folded?

Re: Ethical question/ how to beat a \"beginner\"
 

If an clealry inexperienced player asked me this I would respond with a poker etiquette lesson.

I would nicely explain that it is not polite to ask me a question about my hand while it is being played out as it puts me in an awkward position.

If the players sincerity was at all in question my message would be similiar but I wouldnt be quite as nice about it.

I don't think you handled the situation particularly well. A little tact and consideration would have come in handy whether among friends or not.

Re: Ethical question/ how to beat a \"beginner\"
 

You probably should have just ignored him and let him make his own decision. But technicall you didnt talk about your cards, so there is nothing "illegal" or "wrong" about it. Depending on the pot, he probably should have just folded. If just you two were in for the BB then there was no +EV for him to call.