Re: Is There Any Hope For REAL Poker (i.e. Hold Em Is Killing Us)
 

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If by "skill" you mean "good short term memory", then I won't argue. As to the skill pertaining to every other aspect of poker, I don't think your statement is as certain as you seem to think it is. Especially in no limit, "out-playing" your opponent instead of just "out-remembering" them plays quite a large role. As to your hand example, I'm sure any hold'em player can give you an equally pathetic example of a weak player playing badly. That's what weak players are for, in any game.

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To me, Hold 'Em is more about playing the other player, while 7-stud requires more playing of the odds and cards, calculating the math, etc.

While both games feature a bit of both, each leans more heavily to one side. Since so few players in 7-stud (in my experience) bother to take advantage of all that additional information, that gives me a much larger edge.

Granted, in Hold Em a lot of players don't take the time to pay attention to others actions, betting patterns, etc. and figure things out for themselves.

I've noticed my own Hold 'Em game improve significantly over the past year. Hell, just the past 3-4 months I've been able to figure out my opponents holdings, my reading of foes is getting much better, but I still have a long way to go.

Re: Is There Any Hope For REAL Poker (i.e. Hold Em Is Killing Us)
 

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It takes a lifetime to master.

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Oh, I don't know about that. It took me only a minute to learn.

Re: Is There Any Hope For REAL Poker (i.e. Hold Em Is Killing Us)
 

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If by "skill" you mean "good short term memory",

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YUP. I think 30-40% of Stud is just memory.

Re: Is There Any Hope For REAL Poker (i.e. Hold Em Is Killing Us)
 

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If by "skill" you mean "good short term memory",

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YUP. I think 30-40% of Stud is just memory.

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Memory is a skill, in my book anyway. What I'm saying is that I can gain a much larger edge over the ritalin-deficient hold 'em players who are used to 16-tabling online, which you couldn't possibly do in a game like 7-stud.

Re: Is There Any Hope For REAL Poker (i.e. Hold Em Is Killing Us)
 

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There's more to hold 'em than meets your eye.

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It takes a lifetime to master.

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Oye Vey! I believe the majority of pro's and "authorities" on the subject of poker would agree that 7-card stud requires more skill than Hold 'Em.

I like what Hold 'Em has done for poker, it's brought a lot more money into it with all the fish out there. I just don't care for the difficulty in putting together any poker events that don't feature Hold 'Em.

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I would consider Ed Miller to be a "pro" and an "authority".

-d1sterbd

Re: Is There Any Hope For REAL Poker (i.e. Hold Em Is Killing Us)
 

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But.......those games can be extremely brutal too. Your premium hands can get cracked quite easily because you've got five or six people seeing the flop with junk, and your A/A drops significantly in value.


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I had three 9's on board in 7-stud and this idiot was calling me down trying to catch an inside straight flush (had the 8/5 suited on the board and 4/7 in the hole).

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I know you had the full house but doesn't this sound like the same fish playing junk trying to out draw you? We love it in hold'em too! When I get tired of too many outdraws (which is almost never) I go to higher stakes. The table is tighter and can be more predictable but the BB/hour is much less. I actually enjoy 15/30 much more because of the skill level but the profit is much higher at 10/20 and sometimes a goldmine on the 6/12 table.
Holdemfan

Re: Is There Any Hope For REAL Poker (i.e. Hold Em Is Killing Us)
 

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What I'm saying is that I can gain a much larger edge over the ritalin-deficient hold 'em players who are used to 16-tabling online, which you couldn't possibly do in a game like 7-stud.



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If you are looking for the greatest possible edge over bad players(or "weak" ones lol) then isnt the consensus the HI LO games-Omaha in particular?

Re: Is There Any Hope For REAL Poker (i.e. Hold Em Is Killing Us)
 

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What I'm saying is that I can gain a much larger edge over the ritalin-deficient hold 'em players who are used to 16-tabling online, which you couldn't possibly do in a game like 7-stud.



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If you are looking for the greatest possible edge over bad players(or "weak" ones lol) then isnt the consensus the HI LO games-Omaha in particular?

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Another great game, better than Hold 'Em in my opinion. There are SO many players who will call you down with the 3rd or 4th "best" low, and with two pair against obvious flushes, straights, etc.

But, like Hold 'Em, there isn't as much "record keeping" the player needs to do. In 7-stud, you have more information available to you, so by being one of the only players to keep track of it, you gain a much larger edge over your opponents.

Re: Is There Any Hope For REAL Poker (i.e. Hold Em Is Killing Us)
 

no i think the consensus is Stud 8/b. regular stud H/L was disbanded because the bad players would almost never win.

Re: Is There Any Hope For REAL Poker (i.e. Hold Em Is Killing Us)
 

Ok, makes sense.

I just think players like me who dont have a freakish short term memory will always be at a disadvantage in Stud while we wont necessarily be at the same disadvantage in non Stud games.

Personally I dont think ill learn Stud just bc of that fact. No point in going into boxing 1 handed.