Re: Italian hostage freed in Iraq, then shot by US soldiers
 

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Baghdad is not Milan.

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Jeez dude, it was obviously said in jest.

Sense of humor. Find one.

Re: Italian hostage freed in Iraq, then shot by US soldiers
 

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We'll have to wait for the report, but it seems like a tragic accident caused by frightened, poorly trained troops.

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This looks like an Italian screw up. The Italians will want to save face, but they foolishly threw themselves into a situation where the soldiers at the check point had to defend themselves against a possible car bombing.

Negotiating ransom payments will only invite more kidnappings of Italians and others.

Disrespecting check points in Iraq is very stupid. If you wanted to be shot, you should do what the Italians did in this case.

Americans greatly appreciate the help from Italians and others in Iraq, but you must act responsibly and think before doing something rash. Sadly, someone in the car failed to think rationally in this situation.

Finally, Sgrena is a communist, who's career rests on anti-Americanism. If she admitted that the Italians in the car made a stupid mistake, her career is over. This makes her an untrustworthy witness. (I could care less that she is an anti-American communist, except as it is relevant to her credibility as a witness)

Read about her:[ QUOTE ]
Giuliana Sgrena, though born after WW II, knows about resistance. She has lived its legacy through the memory of her family. Her 79-year-old father, pensioned railroad-worker Franco Sgrena, was an anti-fascist and partisan fighter in the Italian Resistance against Nazi-fascism in WW II and is still today a member and leader of the Communist Party. Her family lives in the modest, two-floored little house in the center of town, where she was born, Mesera (population:1,000), in the extreme north of Italy, near Domodossola, scene of bitter and bloody resistance struggles, close to where partisans arrested and executed Mussolini in 1945. All of Masera, learning of Giuliana's abduction, gathered around the family to console and to remember that Giuliana had continued their fight and had honored their past of resistance by opposing war, imperialism, aggression—above all by placing her profession at the service of the people.

She began early to be concerned about the world in the student movements of the sixties in Milan, which were the strongest in Italy. She faced police clubs at sit-down protests opposing the installation of Pershing and Cruise missiles in US military bases in Italy. She joined Il Manifesto, and reported from some of the most dangerous places on earth, hiding the reality of her personal danger behind words that highlighted the danger that threatened others. link


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For Giuliana Sgrena and against the war
 

Half a million march in Rome

quotes:


The demonstrators also called for the freeing of Giuliana Sgrena, a journalist for the independent pro-communist daily "Il Manifesto," and other hostages. Sgrena is a long-time leader of the feminist and anti-war movements in Italy. The others include journalist Florence Aubenas for the French paper "Libération" and her interpreter, Hussein Al Saadi.



They called for an end to the criminal occupation of Iraq and the immediate withdrawal of all Italian and other Western troops. Other demonstrators carried blow-ups of photos taken by Sgrena during her reporting in Iraq over the last two years of the countless civilian victims of the U.S. war, including the many young children who are victims of U.S. cluster bombs.

Re: For Giuliana Sgrena and against the war
 

They called for an end to the criminal occupation of Iraq and the immediate withdrawal of all Italian and other Western troops. Other demonstrators carried blow-ups of photos taken by Sgrena during her reporting in Iraq over the last two years of the countless civilian victims of the U.S. war, including the many young children who are victims of U.S. cluster bombs.

Blah Blah Blah...this is the country where it is virtually impossible to fire anyone and the population growth of native Italians is like -.3% correct.

Seems like those half a million should be worrying about more pressing matters than the occassional Iraqi child getting killed.

Of course they wont though they will continue to live in their liberal cocoon of indifference to reality...and soon they too will be assimilated by the worldwide Umma. Oh well good riddance.

Re: Italian hostage freed in Iraq, then shot by US soldiers
 

The car wasn't shot at a checkpoint.

They were shot by an armored patrol. All bullet holes are on the right hand side of the car, not the front.

The week before an armored patrol also killed 5 innocent civilians on the same road.

The Italian government is requesting the names of the soldiers so they can be charged with murder.

However, everyone expects the usual cover-up. A good example was the US jet fighter in the NATO base in north Italy that tried to fly under a cable car, hit the cable and 40 people were crushed to death. The US quickly got them out of Italy and "lost" the on-board video.

Re: Italian hostage freed in Iraq, then shot by US soldiers
 

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The car wasn't shot at a checkpoint.


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excerpt from Washington Post:

A few hours later, a statement from the U.S. Army's 3rd Infantry Division in Baghdad said troops fired at a speeding car that "refused to stop at a checkpoint."

The statement said soldiers with the 3rd Infantry "killed one civilian and wounded two others when their vehicle traveling at high speeds refused to stop at a check point here today. About 9:00 pm, a patrol in western Baghdad observed the vehicle speeding towards their checkpoint and attempted to warn the driver to stop by hand and arm signals, flashing white lights, and firing warning shots in front of the car. When the driver didn't stop, the soldiers shot into the engine block, which stopped the vehicle, killing one and wounding two others."

The statement did not explain how bullets fired into the engine block hit the passengers. It said the surviving intelligence agent "was treated by Army medics on the scene but refused medical evacuation for further assistance."

Finally, a State Department official in Washington said the Italians did not tell either the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad or U.S. military commanders about Sgrena's release, even though a U.S. hostage coordinator had been working closely with them on the case.

The incident took place at Checkpoint 504-Camp Victory, near the Baghdad airport, the official said. The airport road has been the scene of numerous ambushes and car bombings. In addition, U.S. troops have fired in the past on cars approaching checkpoints in Iraq out of fear they might be carrying suicide bombers.

<font color="red"> The Italian government has a PR nightmare to handle. I would not accept all statements at face value.

To say "they were not at a checkpoint" is spin, we deserve better from you. If the Americans wanted to kill the people in the car, they would all be dead. The survivors owe their lives to the restraint of the soldiers who had reasonable cause to stop a potential car bomber.</font>

Re: Italian hostage freed in Iraq, then shot by US soldiers
 

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This looks like an Italian screw up.

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I agree with your point about paying ransoms, and yes, the journalist was a communist. However, the agent shot was one of the leading secret service heads and had been in Baghad many times - he wouldn't drive fast towards a US checkpoint.

Also, based on the many other cases of accidental shootings of civilians by frightened US troops, it may be more likely a US screw-up, and probably they're not that worried about saving face.

Re: Italian hostage freed in Iraq, then shot by US soldiers
 

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A few hours later, a statement from the U.S. Army's 3rd Infantry Division in Baghdad said troops fired at a speeding car that "refused to stop at a checkpoint."



Finally, a State Department official in Washington said the Italians did not tell either the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad or U.S. military commanders about Sgrena's release, even though a U.S. hostage coordinator had been working closely with them on the case.


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Both these statements now appear to be false

Re: Italian hostage freed in Iraq, then shot by US soldiers
 

Can you provide sources?

I've seen only the quote from Sgrena claiming that they were not speeding. Of course, "speeding" is in the eye of the beholder.

This quote from her seems pretty vague and clueless:
``It wasn't a checkpoint, but a patrol that started shooting after pointing some lights in our direction,'' the Ansa news agency cited Sgrena as telling the prosecutors. ``We hadn't previously encountered any checkpoint and we didn't understand where the shots came from.''

Re: Italian hostage freed in Iraq, then shot by US soldiers
 

I think we'll have to wait until the two other agents who were wounded give details of the exact events.

However, the Prime Minister has stated that the US were informed, although it appears this mobile patrol probably did not have this information.

The original story, "speeding past a checkpoint" from the Baghad commander, is now being described by Bush as a tragic accident