Re: 25-50 commerce.....interesting decisions on all streets.
 

Sorry, I miscalculated the pot size and thought he was firing an overbet.

You are correct.

Re: 25-50 commerce.....interesting decisions on all streets.
 

ok MP and button had stacks of ~11K
and after the flop action i had ~6400 left (i just realized that my original post was wrong in regards to my stack size after working the hand backwards).
after MP bets 2k and button calls the pot is ~9k so i'm getting over 4-1 on my money.

i actually put MP on 34 and button on a flush draw.
if either player had 78 the money was going in on the flop.
i figured i had odds to try and fill up.

i smooth called the 2K and the river was a black 5 giving me a boat and the effective nuts. because i think if anyone had 55 or 99 more money would have gone in on the flop, but who knows.

so now that i made my boat, whats my best chance to get paid?
the pot is already over 10K and i have ~4400 left.
i'm first to act and both of my opponents are good.
the only player to show strength in this hand besides myself is the MP but like i said in my OP he is very capable of laying down big hands and he has to suspect one of us has a set.
so who likes going for a checkraise, and who likes leading out...and if you like leading would you push the $4400 or bet ~2.5K?

Re: 25-50 commerce.....interesting decisions on all streets.
 

I do not understand at all how you could be certain that you are ahead on the turn and not checkraise.

Re: 25-50 commerce.....interesting decisions on all streets.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I do not understand at all how you could be certain that you are ahead on the turn and not checkraise.

[/ QUOTE ]

He doesn't think he's ahead on the turn, he thinks one of his opponents has the low straight, but the bet is small enough, and he's got enough money behind, to smooth call and try to outdraw him.

As for how to play it: flop looks fine to me.

Turn, what a horrible situation with two very solid opponents; I tend to lead out, but I think your line is fine as well.

River: An open-push is bad if you think Martin will make a play for the pot with a missed draw (this seems quite possible to me), or if you think an opponent with a straight (or overpair?) will check it down, but will call your all-in bet (with the straight, they'll pretty much have to, getting 3:1 on their money.) You have too little behind to value bet anything other than all-in.

All depends on how likely they are to bluff, and to release second-best hands to your all-in; if they're very likely to do both, then check; if unlikely, then bet.

You should consider your game selection ;-)

Re: 25-50 commerce.....interesting decisions on all streets.
 

[ QUOTE ]

ok MP and button had stacks of ~11K
and after the flop action i had ~6400 left (i just realized that my original post was wrong in regards to my stack size after working the hand backwards).


[/ QUOTE ]

OK, this doesn't change much because it means you started with about 7.5K instead of 7K.

[ QUOTE ]

after MP bets 2k and button calls the pot is ~9k so i'm getting over 4-1 on my money.


[/ QUOTE ]

Now I'm lost. Was just the initially cited stack size incorrect, or were the bet/raise amounts incorrect as well?

250 went in preflop. Then 3300 more went in on the flop. Then 2K was bet and called. 0.25K + 3.3K + 2K + 2K = ~7.5K. I'm not saying you were not getting odds (assuming you had 10 clean outs), just that I think there is only 7.5K in the pot, not 9K.

[ QUOTE ]

i actually put MP on 34 and button on a flush draw.
if either player had 78 the money was going in on the flop.
i figured i had odds to try and fill up.


[/ QUOTE ]

Why would he play 34 like that? He overbet the pot on the flop and was called and then checkraised. So what cards does he like if he has 34? 2 of hearts? No. 7 of hearts? No. Any other 7? Well he can kind of like that. Or maybe he is already completely drawing dead. If he's lucky he is up against a set, will hit one of his 3 non-heart 2s on the turn, and the board will not pair on the river. The flop was double suited and a nut straight was already possible. Sounds like a strange way to play the ignorant end of a straight draw in a deep stacked no limit game.

[ QUOTE ]

i smooth called the 2K and the river was a black 5 giving me a boat and the effective nuts. because i think if anyone had 55 or 99 more money would have gone in on the flop, but who knows.

so now that i made my boat, whats my best chance to get paid?


[/ QUOTE ]

You will probably not get paid, but push is your best chance. If he's fishy enough to call the flop checkraise with 34 there, then maybe he'll call. Probably you won't get paid, but pushing is better than checking IMO.

Edited to add: Assuming he did play the 34 like a fish, would he then underbet the pot when one of his 3 good cards hits?

Re: 25-50 commerce.....interesting decisions on all streets.
 

Maybe 3h 4h is a possibility. I wouldn't be able to put him on 3 4 here though.

Re: 25-50 commerce.....interesting decisions on all streets.
 

A couple of weeks ago I got my clock cleaned in a similar hand. The lesson I learned was that if I CR the flop then check the turn and a solid ABC player bets into me, he probably has the nuts. BB calling makes the decision to fold here even easier. You gave it a good try on the flop but my guess is that at least one of them probably has you beat already.

Re: 25-50 results
 

ok.
so the reason i put the MP on 34 rather then 78 or a set is because after the button calls and i checkraise if he has the nuts he is going to make a big play right there to shut out the possible draws (since it is multiway rather then heads up) and i put the button on the flush draw as he seemed to have kept getting priced into drawing.

as it turned out i pushed the river, trying to represent a busted flush draw.
after all i check raised the flop, then check called the turn, so i figured that might look like a busted flush draw.

the MP player thought for about three minutes, counted out the chips to call, almost did, and then finally folded in disgust, flashing 34 of hearts to several players.

martin (button) showed K9 of hearts and folded as well.

in retrospect i think my only chance to get paid would have been to go for a checkraise, but i think there is a high liklihood the MP would have checked the river.

and as to the poster who commented on how i could checkraise the flop then check the turn if i thought i was ahead....i didn't think i was ahead.

however i felt like i got close to the right price to call on the turn and try and fill up.
i was also thinking that i would have some implied odds if i did fill up, however it turns out i didn't.

Re: 25-50 results
 

with your reads and the way the hand went down, I think you really need to go for the CR on the river.

MP is most likely going to bet his prob. straight, and if not, there is a good chance martin will make a play at the pot with a busted flush draw.

another is throw a $1.5k-2.5k bet on the river and let him call with the straight. even he isnt laying that down for that price.

tough hand though, very interesting.

btw how are the 5-10 and 10-20ish games there usually.

ill bet out there sometime in the next few months.

Re: 25-50 commerce.....interesting decisions on all streets.
 

MP played it poorly. If he overbets the pot on the turn the button folds and now you have to make a decision. Would you call or lay it down if you really thought he had a small straight. But with the way the hand played if you bet 2000 or 2500 I think it would had been hard for him not to call.