Re: Best Heavyweight Fighter
 

Rocky Marciano. Who has any doubt? Never beaten.

Peace

Goodie

Re: Best Heavyweight Fighter
 

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definatly tyson. he was relentless and in his prime would end the majority of his fights in the first and second rounds. he would fight people like they just killed his mother.

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Is this a joke post, by any chance?

Ali would have made Tyson look like a total klutz.

Didn't George Foreman hit as hard or harder than Tyson? George could take a punch a lot better, too. If Tyson bit Foreman's ear, Foreman would have knocked him into next week.

Marciano was much tougher than Tyson ever dreamed of being.

Could Tyson have beaten Joe Lewis in his prime? I seriously doubt it.

Tyson against any of the above in their primes would have been a mismatch. "Outclassed" would best describe Tyson against any of those guys. Tyson beat a bunch of bums and half-assed fighters. Sure he could hit very hard. But real fighters gave him real problems.

Re: Best Heavyweight Fighter
 

Jack Johnson

Re: Best Heavyweight Fighter
 

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Give me Ali and Foreman.

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Yes, maybe the best boxer vs the best puncher ever, given the criteria specified by the original post.

But it's hard not to make at least a little allowance for the period in which a boxer fought. Otherwise, considering historical advances in technique and athleticism, you can't easily give serious consideration to any boxer before the '60s or maybe the '50s. If you make just a tiny allowance along the line of "best for his time," then the recent Ken Burns documentary on Jack Johnson make me think Mr. Johnson may just be our man. (And I was always a huge Ali fan.)

Re: Best Heavyweight Fighter
 

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definatly tyson. he was relentless and in his prime would end the majority of his fights in the first and second rounds. he would fight people like they just killed his mother.


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Is this a joke post, by any chance?


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Doubtful. To many people of my generation, Tyson is the best ever.
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Ali would have made Tyson look like a total klutz.

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Possible. He did have that effect on people. But that doesn't necessarily mean Tyson couldn't catch him lucky and take him out quick.

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Didn't George Foreman hit as hard or harder than Tyson? George could take a punch a lot better, too. If Tyson bit Foreman's ear, Foreman would have knocked him into next week.


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Doubtful Foreman hit harder. Foreman wan't even the hardest hitter of his day; that honor is almost unanimously given to Earnie Shavers. Tyson could take punches too, he just didn;t give much of an opportunity to take any many times.
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Marciano was much tougher than Tyson ever dreamed of being.

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I have a hard time disagreeing with this statement, but I've also heard marciano was similar to Holmes in that many/most of the great heavyweights were either to old or too young for most of their prime fighting time.

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Could Tyson have beaten Joe Lewis in his prime? I seriously doubt it.

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Me too. But that's not saying alot. Louis is easily top 3 all time, and often regarded #1.

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Tyson against any of the above in their primes would have been a mismatch. "Outclassed" would best describe Tyson against any of those guys. Tyson beat a bunch of bums and half-assed fighters. Sure he could hit very hard. But real fighters gave him real problems.

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In his prime, I personally feel Tyson had a good shot versus ANY boxer in history. His menace seems quickly forgotten, and a good portion of the reason they were all "bums" is because he crushed about all of them. Funny how losing a few great fights, as Ali did, elevates the perception of the depth of the sport. Personally, I never thought much of Foreman, either time through, Frazier was great, but other than that, Ali in his prime dominated most everyone. Tyson didn;t fight bums; he fought all comers. HE never dodged anyone in his prime, and became lethargic, complacent, and overconfident in his abilities, not to mention he lost his grounding when CUs D'Amato died and he got rid of Kevin Rooney and let Don KIng in. I Firmly belive that if D'Amato lives 5 more years, Rooney stays as his trainer, andKing never enters the picture, Tyson would be considered seriously among the greatest of all time for his entire career, instead of the running punch line and "oh, what he used to be" he is now.

FOr the record, also, Holyfield WAS head butting him the whole first fight, most of the second, and the refs did nothing about it. Not saying I condone biting an ear off, but watch the first fight again and see how many times Holyfield leads with his head directly into Tyson's face going into clinches.

My top 5 list
#1 Joe Louis
#2 Jack Johnson
#3 Muhammad Ali
#4 Rocky Marciano
#5 Mike Tyson

The above considers all at the top of their game.

P.S. Take my opinions for exactly what they cost you here. I'm not a huge boxing fan.

Re: Best Heavyweight Fighter
 

Well, I am a huge boxing fan, and I'm glad you took the time to type what I was too lazy to.

Great post.

Re: Best Heavyweight Fighter
 

one thing that people overlook with tyson is his mental drive. i spent two years boxing in high school, at an all black gym where i was picked on and made fun of (the gym was in detroit and i was one of two white kids to go there), but when i would get in the ring to spar a whole different side of me came out. i was pissed at these people and wanted nothing more than to kill them. i was in the zone and felt untouchable. if i felt anything like tyson felt when he got in the ring during his prime then i can easily see him holding his own vs. any boxer who you named.

if he could take control of the fights in 5 rounds or less he could easily win. getting into a sluging match past 5 rounds then he loses. thats just how i veiw the whole situation [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Best Heavyweight Fighter
 

I know what you are saying about heart, mcb, but Tyson didn't have it compared to those other guys. Tyson grew up being a bully and a mugger in his teens. He could get mad all right and punch like hell but he really didn't that inner strength deep inside the way Ali or Foreman or Marciano did. Holyfield was a lot stronger mentally than Tyson. The fact that Tyson bit his ear showed just how immature Tyson really was inside--like a little kid playing a big man's game.

I don't think Tyson could match those guys for heart or mental toughness, I really don't. And I can't envision him winning a slugfest with Foreman, either.

Tyson wasn't truly a tough guy deep inside. He was a bully, and at times an angry man, but he cracked under pressure like a little kid. He couldn't control his emotions. Channelling anger or being a bully is not enough versus someone with true mental toughness who can also fight very well also. And Big George would just have overpowered him.

Can't you see it when you look in Tyson's eyes in an interview on TV? Can't you see the fear in Tyson's eyes, in his body language? He showed no fear when he was against opponents he knew he could beat. But just look how he cracked in real fights. He could only fight his best when the competition was not too tough. He couldn't take a real fight against a real world-class boxer. Sure he took on all comers but there just weren't any great boxers at that time to challenge him. He never fought a great boxer. Holyfield was great in his own way but that's not what I mean by great. When Ali was fighting he fought several real challenges. Heck I'd take Joe Frazier over Tyson in a match.

Re: Best Heavyweight Fighter
 

That wasn't a flukey win, that was an ass kicking by a guy who wasn't afraid of him.

..and Tyson just went from Kevin Rooney training him to Team King. Tysons cornerman didnt even have an enswell, they used condoms filled with ice.

Re: Best Heavyweight Fighter
 

I agree with Jack Johnson as the best boxer.
He was the first fighter to incorporate footwork in the ring. Joe Lewis ( Karate Joe Lewis) used to talk about Jack Johnson and his footwork during his seminars.

FYI, James Earl Jones potrayed Jack Johnson in the Great White Hope. It centered around a negro marrying a white woman. The law did not allow it back in those days, so Jack moved to England I believe,