Re: PP 15/30 88, looking for opinions
 

I think isolating with 88 require a bit of knowledge about the player. Probalby not a great play vs an unknown mid-position raiser.
I think a lot of people cold call 3 bets with jacks.

Re: PP 15/30 88, looking for opinions
 

you toss 88 to an early raiser unless you know him very very well. you are getting incorrrect odds to draw at your set, therefore, the 3 bet had neg expectations over time.

Re: PP 15/30 88, looking for opinions
 

to follow up 50% your a 4.5 to 1 dog, 50% your about even money. over time it is a big loser.

Re: PP 15/30 88, looking for opinions
 

I think we are all agreed that your PF play was poor. 88 folds here.

However, I'm not going to put my opponent on the ONLY hand that beats mine just because he caps the turn.

I think he likes his hand, so he will bet the river. I chk/rz - call if he re-raises his JJ.

Here's what all those bets mean to me. He CCPF=low PP or some high cards. He calls the flop="i have a pair, a draw, or some overcards" He raises the turn= "I have AJ or better" He re-raises on the turn="I have two pair or better"
This still leaves a good deal of hands that he could have not to mention the possibility that he is bluffing his AK-flush draw.

You can't play always scared of the nuts, particularily when the nuts are two specific cards like JJ.

Re: PP 15/30 88, looking for opinions
 

I think he's better off collecting one bet for sure on the river (and possibly winning or losing an additional one when raised), than he is to risk winning zero bets, or losing three when he runs into a set of jacks. IMO-

Re: PP 15/30 88, looking for opinions
 

Bet out and happily 3bet if he raises again. The odds of you being beat here are minimal and to extract the maximum when you win, you've just got to suck it up and pay him off if you actually are beat. The only hand you're really afraid of here is JJ and it's more likely that he has AA, KK or QQ and is overplaying than JJ. 55 and 22 are also possible for a lot of players and that's all discounting the possiblity that he's just really awful and has something like J2s.

Of course, everything else you did before the river in this hand was pretty much automatic.

Re: PP 15/30 88, looking for opinions
 

I think c/r is good here. He would probably slow down if you bet out and just call, but he will also call if you c/r him. If he 3-bet river than against unknown i would probably just call.

Re: PP 15/30 88, looking for opinions
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think isolating with 88 require a bit of knowledge about the player. Probalby not a great play vs an unknown mid-position raiser.


[/ QUOTE ]

Really? It seems like an automatic play to me. 88 is a great hand to 3bet even UTG raisers with if you know how to play it postflop.

Re: PP 15/30 88, looking for opinions
 

Thats a risky reraise with 88, especially with no info on the particular player. Other than that I think you played it fine on the flop and turn once you hit your set. As for the river, call and most likely expect to be shown trip Jacks. Against a decent player I have trouble seeing him turning over any other hand.

Mike Emery

Re: PP 15/30 88, looking for opinions
 

To all of you so opposed to the 3-bet preflop: you watch to much poker on TV. This is not an all-in move. Assuming a standard PP 15/30 you should isolate here a good deal of the time as a lot of players would raise any paint here.

With no read on the player I check/call the river. Decent players will only call your bet with AA-QQ, any bluff will fold, but they will all bet when checked to. I think 55 or 22 are unlikely here and JJ will raise you every single time.