Re: Aggressiveness is overrated...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I always play a small set fast against a large field...

[/ QUOTE ]

As do I, usually.

[ QUOTE ]
..., regardless of the board

[/ QUOTE ]

Well no. I do think about the board and how the action unfolds before making my decision

[ QUOTE ]
On the flop, your 444 is not the invulnerable hand you think it is, as any of a number of pocket pairs higher than you can hit their 2 outers

[/ QUOTE ]

I don´t think it´s invulnerable but I do think it has a HUGE equity as most hands are drawing close to dead and there are few likely drawing hands out there. And if someone want´s to play their two outers, fine by me. They are actually making me money if they choose to continue with those...

[ QUOTE ]
there are some 4-out draws that can beat you as well

[/ QUOTE ]

But do you really honestly think that it´s likely that such a holding is out there? Had the 3,4 been 6,7 or 7,8 instead I would have agreed but not with 3,4. I think the chances are very small that a 4-out draw is out there...

[ QUOTE ]
Not raising the turn is terrible under any circumstances.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn´t say terrible but it´s certainly very debatable...

Re: Aggressiveness is overrated...
 

You have to raise this flop to chase out 5s and 2s, these are the hands that will most likely beat you.

Re: Aggressiveness is overrated...
 

[ QUOTE ]
More importantly, why would you give the weaker draws the implied odds to call correctly on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]
What weaker draws are you referring to that are getting the correct implied odds to call this Turn? Any two pair hand except AK,which I hope CO has, are certainly not getting proper odds to call this turn...

And regarding the other draws. I don´t think it´s likely that either the CO (pf aggressor) or button (CC) is holding a 2 or 5 in their hands.And the same can be said about TJ or QJ.And since UTG is betting this board I think it´s highly unlikely he holds any of those hands also...

Re: Aggressiveness is overrated...
 

Why, at bad 2/4 tables, would someone sticking around with a gutshot for 1 bet in a decent pot surprise you? and by calling the flop, you are giving gutshots the correct implied odds to peel one off to see the river. (Button, for example, is getting a clean 10.5:1 to see the river)

Bottom line is you need to protect your hand. And sets need protecting too.

Re: Aggressiveness is overrated...
 

[ QUOTE ]
let me just comment on the preflop

[/ QUOTE ]
(what should have followed) "it was the only street I played well"

Re: Aggressiveness is overrated...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why, at bad 2/4 tables, would someone sticking around with a gutshot for 1 bet in a decent pot surprise you?

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesn´t, what I am questioning is the likelyhood of any one of my opponents to hold a hand that a gutshot is likely on the flop and Turn...

After all don´t you agree that the odds for the PF aggressor a Coldcaller and a flopbettor to hold any one of those holdings are unlikely? Do you agree that if the BB had been in the hand the odds for a hand like that would go up?

Once again I don´t say that you are wrong. Just look the action,the players and the board...

Re: Aggressiveness is overrated...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Now raising this particular flop I don´t even consider to be an option. Better to just call giving CO reason to stay with his non A hands and raising with his A hands.


[/ QUOTE ]

Here's the problem with your thinking. You're giving your opponents too much credit.

Bad players like to gamb00l. They will stay even if you raise the flop.

When I flop a set, I like to pour chips by the bucketful into the center of the table, metaphorically speaking.

All that said, I could mayyyyyyyybe understand smooth calling in this situation every now and again.

By comparison, not raising the turn is HORRIBLE. It's just a bad play, through and through. Quit trying to defend it.

Re: Aggressiveness is overrated...
 

Preflop, if the table is loose enough this is fine. Barring a read on the table I fold. I like to give them credit for great play, and be happily surprised to find it otherwise time and time again.

Raise the flop! You have a good hand, and flop raises aren't respected.

On the turn, given that you played that flop like you did, I raise. This is to protect primarily against spades, but also gutshots.

On the river, being that you played as you did, I would raise. Since the board is so threatening, it is quite possible you will not have to pay off another bet if he has the low straight, and possible he will not raise with the high one. Not to mention, he will call when you are ahead enough % of the time.

*COUGH FPS COUGH*

Re: Aggressiveness is overrated...
 

Since 2 players limped before the raise, and BBs have a tendency to call raises with any 2 suited, you could see 55, A2s, A5s, 67s, K5s, K2s, and all sorts of other crazy shiite. I am constantly astounded by the crap people limp with, and some of thes (like 55 and A5s) aren't even bad calls from MP w/ 2 limpers. And the way it played out, it looks like your opponents (besides the bettor) are on draws. So, yes, there are many 4+ outers you have to protect your hand against. And if they call, then it's +EV for you.

Re: Aggressiveness is overrated...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Since 2 players limped before the raise, and BBs have a tendency to call raises with any 2 suited, you could see 55, A2s, A5s, 67s, K5s, K2s, and all sorts of other crazy shiite

[/ QUOTE ]


True, But in this hand the BB folded preflop and the limpers either folded or bet out on the flop. The only other people left are a freflop aggressor and someone who coldcalled 2 bets... My point is that I think it´s very unlikely that either one of those opponents have one of those drawing hands based on their actions...