Re: TO BET OR NOT TO BET? 15-30 LIMIT HAND
 

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you at least want all the medium/little connector hands and king-little and ace-little out.

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I don't think you actually want those hands out. You just want to charge them for drawing to runner-runner or at best 3 outs.

EDIT: maybe you do want the three-outers to fold, although I doubt that pairing a little card will win a showdown given this board.

Re: TO BET OR NOT TO BET? 15-30 LIMIT HAND
 

Hi Vince,

I love you, but I don't love your play here. I am siding with your friend's analysis on this one. The other posters have mentioned the reasons for checking. I would only add that I doubt your Ace high is the best hand with both a Q and J onboard.

Sounds like a frisky game and hope you won a bundle.

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: TO BET OR NOT TO BET? 15-30 LIMIT HAND
 

I like the bet here. You have good value of your hand, and can withstand lots of action on the flop. Plus, you may get a free card on the turn. If you were already last, then it's close, though I still like betting, because you'll still get a free card on the turn often enough. You are correct, Vince. Stop listening to those locals.

Re: TO BET OR NOT TO BET? 15-30 LIMIT HAND
 

With six opponents on this coordinated board, there is a very good chance that you will get checkraised. I would take the free card (with infinite odds), and if you spike a 10 on the turn, there will undoubtedly be heavy action.

Re: TO BET OR NOT TO BET? 15-30 LIMIT HAND
 

Hi Vince, I like a bet here. You will get the turn free card more often than most people expect, and an early position check-raiser might just clear up your over card outs if he has some sort of average kickered queen. So I say bet and see what happens because you've got a ton of redraws even if you are behind.
-James

Re: TO BET OR NOT TO BET? 15-30 LIMIT HAND
 

No votes for pot building? (not saying that's where I am at, just asking)

Re: TO BET OR NOT TO BET? 15-30 LIMIT HAND
 

One thing about betting the flop is it will tend to make the hand play more straight-forward. I guess in Las Vegas this is less important since the play more straight forward, anyway. For example, in CA, if you check, on the turn a rag comes, someone may bet 88, and someone with J4s will raise. You may have to fold because you think you have only four outs when you really have 10. In Las Vegas they play a lot more passive, especially at this limit, so the guy with the J4s may fold or just call. I don't even know if they play J4s there.

It was nice seeing you at Raymer's thing at the Bike. Oh yeah, you didn't show up.

Re: TO BET OR NOT TO BET? 15-30 LIMIT HAND
 

Vince your hand is a little stronger than an OESD. I'd bet an OESD just about 110% off the time here. If I get a free card on the turn that's gravy. Of course I reserve the right to bet the turn also.

Re: TO BET OR NOT TO BET? 15-30 LIMIT HAND
 

I am not sure that a check on the flop follwed by a ten on the turn will lead to heavy action - in fact, the check might inhibit it.

Note: The above is just a passing comment. I don't mean to suggest that Vince should bet the flop in order not to inhibit heavy turn action if he catches a ten.

Re: TO BET OR NOT TO BET? 15-30 LIMIT HAND
 

I would be in this hand until the turn regardless of the action with a 4 bet cap, as in California. In Vegas, I may end up folding, but not likely. I play these California games, and betting is correct 1000% of the time here.

FWIW, if you have a gutshot and are getting 12-1, it's an easy call. On the flop, you will often call getting less than that, usually when you close the action or you know whne you're gonna get paid well. You have some things to learn, it appears.