Re: Said something stupid...
 

if you're going to fold the river when he bets then why not just fold now. What % of the time does he bet this river? Its got to be around 90%. If you call on the turn you gotta make a crying call on the river(assuming a 4th diamond doesn't come).

Re: Said something stupid...
 

You should fold but most people won't. I had a similar situation where my opp checked the River and then turned his cards over before I could act.

I think he was shooting an angle to save a bet so I had no guilt about betting as I had him beat. He squirmed for a while but just could not fold.

Re: OT Where is this card room?
 

I travel to Chicago a few times a year. Used to play at Hollywood until they started charging admission. An have also played at Harrahs. Is this place new?

Bubbagump

Re: Said something stupid...
 

You really have no way of knowing how he is interpreting your statement, so you don't know much more about what his river bet means than you would have otherwise.

I think you absolutely have to call down an aggressive opponent's turn raise (and river bet) here. You're getting like 10.5:2 to call the turn raise and river bet. Folding would be a significant mistake.

Additionally, from a meta-game perspective, you probably don't want to be known as someone who bets and releases to a raise on a scare card, particularly with an aggressive player.

Re: Said something stupid...
 

Nate,

Where I play people like to say the old " One Time Donation " line when you raise them on the turn. That way they ( or you [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]) have no "obligation" to call the river.

( not that you were in this case either )


Tim

Re: Said something stupid...
 

The problem as I saw it, was that once you said that, you guarenteed he'd bet the river almost regardless of his holding. If this is the hand I remember, then he would have anyway, so it didn't really matter.

Re: Said something stupid...
 

[ QUOTE ]

Turn is a small diamond. I bet and the first caller, who is a pretty aggressive player, raises. It's folded around to me.

I say "I'll pay you off" and call.

Having said that, can I fold the river if he bets again?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I don't think you can fold. I'm an aggressive player, and I would certainly be tempted to represent the flush if I missed it or a complete flush even if I only have 4 to the flush on the turn.

If this were a weak player, I'd consider folding to the turn raise. There are some aggressive ABC players in this game, and against those players I'd lay it down. For a normal aggressive player, I take it to showdown.

I thought about advocating betting out on the river, but changed my mind. Would anyone bet out on the river? I think it's a bad idea unless you have a good read on this player and know he'd be able to bluff raise. You don't see bluff raises on the river in this particular game as far as I remember.

Regards,

T

Re: Said something stupid...
 

Hi Nate,

No, you can only consider folding the river if another diamond comes. If you call the turn, you might as well call the river.

What your statement may help with is that if he is semi-bluffing with a big diamond, this may stop him from betting the river should a blank hit.

Re: Said something stupid...
 

"What your statement may help with is that if he is semi-bluffing with a big diamond, this may stop him from betting the river should a blank hit."

Why would you want to discourage him from bluffing a non-[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] river if he was semi-bluffing the turn with a high [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]?

Re: OT Where is this card room?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I travel to Chicago a few times a year. Used to play at Hollywood until they started charging admission. An have also played at Harrahs. Is this place new?

Bubbagump

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, Trump has been open for less than a year. This was the first time I've played at that room, however. Based on my limited experience I'd sum up the alternatives as follows:

Advantages to Harrah's:

Regular 20/40 games.
Somewhat better floor managers.
No weird swimming pool smell like at Trump.

Advantages to Trump:

Semi-regular $200 NL game.
Significantly more spacious cardroom.
Cheap alcoholic beverages.