Re: Party 750k cripple-me hand
 

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And you will never in a million years be a good player unless you try to steal.

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Was that for Toddy or for me?

Re: Party 750k cripple-me hand
 

You can't call the minraise and not push that flop. You would also usually have to push 974 and As9s5x type flops as well. I think you understand why this is, though.

But preflop..... blah. Unless he's proven himself to be a very tricky player, he doesn't expect you to fold. I'd expect a bigger raise (probably an all in) with most marginal-to-good hands, because for him playing a flop out of position with lots of chips left to bet is a bitch unless he has a beast of a hand. Add into this that you've folded for 3 orbits and have a far from maniacal image, and the odds of him having a monster go up significantly.

I know it makes you want to puke because it feels so weak to fold to a minraise, but I think you gotta do it here.

Everett

Re: Party 750k cripple-me hand
 

I cannot fold to the miniraise. I just can't!

Re: Party 750k cripple-me hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
Flop comes T64, BB bets 5000 of his remaining 9500. I push.

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This kind of bet screams "I want more money in the pot" and would induce me to fold. Any time someone makes a relatively small bet compared to pot size, yet that bet is a majority of their chips, that tells me they're just aching to double up with the rest of their chips.

The preflop call is tough to turn down on pot odds. But again, that min-raise preflop screams once again "power hand" that he's trying to milk. Not saying it wasn't worth a call preflop, but I'd be very cautious.

Re: Party 750k cripple-me hand
 

given he called the preflop re-raise, and and flop hit... i don't see how he gets away at that point. i am folding to his re-raise pre, and probably not even testing the steal attempt this orbit, given reasons stated earlier.

dats no limit baby

Re: Party 750k cripple-me hand
 

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Maybe we should think about this a different way. Prior to flop you had 14x bb...which is not a bad pile. Stealing the blinds would have given you $2,250 more/or 15.5xbb... which is not incrementally/substantionally more or changing the style of poker you can play moving on. That said, I think I just let this go preflop (not raising in the first place), and wait for better cards. Manyatime, have a pissed away a nice portion of my stack by getting cute.

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I think if you haven't played a hand in 3 orbits, this is an excellent opportunity to steal, and you simply have to pick up the blinds once in a while for stack maintenance reasons. 1.5 BB may not be a life changing amount but it's still an increase of 10% in your stack size.

Re: Party 750k cripple-me hand
 

PF

I think it's a really bad time to steal when you have 14XBB even if your image is tight.
With 5XBB in the center any player who has 10XBB might take a pot shot at you if he/she thinks he is 40% in the hand. I think alot of short stack marginal hands will play back here including any ace any pair and any broadway for some players.
At 180 players left the payout structure is fairly flat for anybody in the red zone. The need to accumulate far outweighs the need for survival.

I think for most players on short stacks these first two points take much more precendence than reads on players. I'd be looking to call a desperate push rather than making one.

The miniraise.

Villain's playback isn't even attempting to drive you out of the pot. Given you're tight image, I can't imagine villain doing this without AA. I think you have to fold and go to push and fold mode.

Re: Party 750k cripple-me hand
 

I've realized something about stealing but don't know how to quantify it yet. I think if I am continuing with the hand I would try to make him laydown preflop. Given that is not happening I would vomit and fold because I don't flop good enough nearly often enough, and try to get a real hand soon and get played back at as a result of this hand.

Re: Party 750k cripple-me hand
 

I fold this PF because this is such an awkward stack size to be stealing with unless I know the blinds are tight. (Assume you are called and the flop misses you; a continuation bet is a third to a half of your stack. This gets ugly.)

Given the way the hand played out, I call the reraise and then puke/fold the flop.

Re: Party 750k cripple-me hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
PF

I think it's a really bad time to steal when you have 14XBB even if your image is tight.
With 5XBB in the center any player who has 10XBB might take a pot shot at you if he/she thinks he is 40% in the hand. I think alot of short stack marginal hands will play back here including any ace any pair and any broadway for some players.
At 180 players left the payout structure is fairly flat for anybody in the red zone. The need to accumulate far outweighs the need for survival.

I think for most players on short stacks these first two points take much more precendence than reads on players. I'd be looking to call a desperate push rather than making one.

The miniraise.

Villain's playback isn't even attempting to drive you out of the pot. Given you're tight image, I can't imagine villain doing this without AA. I think you have to fold and go to push and fold mode.

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So do you fold KK to the miniraise? I mean, really.

This forum just gets more and more paranoid when it comes to the miniraise. Let's have a 2+2 tournament so I can win every hand by representing AA with a miniraise.