Re: The Overuse of the WA/WB line Out of Position
 

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In the cases in which my opponent is a solid player I begin to check-call the flop and donk the turn with more frequency.

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Why would you do this with Ax instead of checkraising the flop and betting the turn?

I'm really having trouble with this question. My right brain really likes the idea of checkcall-bet with hands like this. It feels right and I can't explain why.

My left brain will have none of this. The checkraise is clearly a fat +EV bet so why leave it on the table? Especially when the flop doesn't leave much scope for representing that the turn improved your hand. Villain knows that the hand you bet the turn with is probably the hand you played the flop with. Whether or not you checkraised the flop isn't going to greatly influence his turn play.

Can anyone out there help my right brain explain itself?

Re: The Overuse of the WA/WB line Out of Position
 

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Can anyone out there help my right brain explain itself?

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I am probably unqualified to answer this question because both halves of my brain are left. But I think against solid players I think I get some confusion call downs that would have folded either immediately to a flop checkraise or to my subsequent turn bet. I know I am often like a deer in headlights when I see this line from an opponent that I either know or suspect is a good player.

Cartman

Re: The Overuse of the WA/WB line Out of Position
 

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I'm not going to go as far as to say that the WA/WB check/call, check/call, bet line sucks when out of position like another poster did in the "Clarkmeister Theory" thread, but I do think he has a point.


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i didnt read the whole post, but im just gonna say it sucks.

Re: The Overuse of the WA/WB line Out of Position
 

Sorry guys, haven't been posting in a while so I'm out of date...

What does "WA/WB" stand for? And what is the "WA/WB line."



Adam

Re: The Overuse of the WA/WB line Out of Position
 

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btn open. I call AQ in BB for [censored] metagame.

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As an aside: this suggested line sucks (for metagame reasons).


Adam

Re: The Overuse of the WA/WB line Out of Position
 

WA/WB stands for way ahead or way behind, when either you or your opponent is drawing slim. The phrase "way ahead/way behind line" is usually associated with the check/call, check/call, bet line. I argue that this association is overused and oversimplified.

Re: The Overuse of the WA/WB line Out of Position
 

For the record, I thought that the "Weak Ace Line" was a type of WA/WB scenario. OR you could say that all Weak Ace Lines are WA/WB scenarios, but not all WA/WB scarios are Weak Aces. Anyway I was thinking that the OP's OP was a picture of a Weak Ace line specifically.

Changeing focus......

I also disagree that the Weak ace line is

cc/cc/bf always... but is rather sometimes cc/cc/bc. This is opponent/situationallly dependant.

Re: The Overuse of the WA/WB line Out of Position
 

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Can anyone out there help my right brain explain itself?

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Sounds fun. I'm not advocating this line, merely listing some advantages off the top of my head. Plus I'm not too bright. Others are invited to add to this list.

(1) If the opponent has a hand like TT on an A82 flop, he must put you on a hand and decide whether to continue. If you start to show strength on the turn instead of the flop, your range is more likely to be one he beats (example: the turn may allow you to represent a 4-flush) and he will continue.

(2) Shania, or the converse of the above point. If the turn is a blank, you can now check-call middle pair on the flop and donk the turn occasionally, representing an ace. Now he may fold a hand that has you beat.

(3) The obvious. Your play looks suspicious and may induce a bluff-raise. You'd have to compare this to the amount of bets you expect to get in the pot with the flop check-raise.

Edit: (4) If he has you beat, with AK or something, you may save yourself a half bet vs the villain calling your flop c/r and raising the turn.

Re: The Overuse of the WA/WB line Out of Position
 

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Edit: (4) If he has you beat, with AK or something, you may save yourself a half bet vs the villain calling your flop c/r and raising the turn.

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This point I must object to. The core of the left brain argument is that Ax is a big favorite and therefore the extra action contributed by the flop checkraise is +EV. The fact that sometimes Villain has AK and we are losing is already built into that assessment. Raising it again as a separate drawback is analogous to double counting.

Re: The Overuse of the WA/WB line Out of Position
 

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If they are checking behind too much, you need to peel more with K high and Q high. If your rag aces aren't getting paid off, you need to checkraise the flop more with air and take away pots with 7 high. This specific line sucks when playing in HU blind situations, especially when you are probably not going to get to the river unless you have a pair and are not going to lead the river unless you have specifically a pair of aces.

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Agreed 100%.