Re: Folding the river for one bet with top pair...
 

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The possibility that he was playing top pair with a flush draw aggressively on the flop is compelling enough to call a river bet. I see we're losing to something like K3:diamonds: a fair amount, but the pot has gotten too big at this point. We have to call, even though we may be beat.

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Good players rarely raise two limpers from the SB with K3s ... the general consensus is that my fold was awful — I can accept that, it probably was, but on the river when he bets into two players I came to the conclusion that I was probably not winning.

Re: Folding the river for one bet with top pair...
 

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If he has two pair, we have outs to the board pairing.


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What does he make two-pair with that he raises from the SB with?

Re: Folding the river for one bet with top pair...
 

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If you aren't planning on calling the river then there's no reason to call the turn.

I call down after being 3bet on the flop.

Haupt_234

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If he has two pair, we have outs to the board pairing.

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you need to do a little bit more hand reading

Re: Folding the river for one bet with top pair...
 

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The possibility that he was playing top pair with a flush draw aggressively on the flop is compelling enough to call a river bet. I see we're losing to something like K3:diamonds: a fair amount, but the pot has gotten too big at this point. We have to call, even though we may be beat.

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Good players rarely raise two limpers from the SB with K3s ... the general consensus is that my fold was awful — I can accept that, it probably was, but on the river when he bets into two players I came to the conclusion that I was probably not winning.

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I thought he completed. Well, the only reasonable hand he could have is AA or AK? I see your point.

Re: Folding the river for one bet with top pair...
 

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I think the river fold is not heinous. Far from it. Whether I'd fold it is another matter, but I'm a megadonkey.

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You and I may be the only ones to not think it's awful. I'm not saying it's right — and after reading these responses, I'd call next time — but I don't think it's as bad as some say. Betting the river into two players, and the SB raise, and the TAG-ish playing, says he's got a real hand to me.

But next time, yeah, I'll probably call.

Re: Folding the river for one bet with top pair...
 

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If you aren't planning on calling the river then there's no reason to call the turn.

I call down after being 3bet on the flop.

Haupt_234

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If he has two pair, we have outs to the board pairing.

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you need to do a little bit more hand reading

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yah, like looking at the pre-flop action (after I have my morning coffee).

Re: Folding the river for one bet with top pair...
 

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if you don't have odds to call the river, I don't see how you have odds to call the turn.

my point is you should call the river, KJ is very possible here.

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I think KJs is the only reasonable hand I beat here, though a chop is possible. He's a good player raising two limpers out of the SB and he's done nothing but bet and raise.

I called the turn not trying to spike, but still trying to work out if I was behind. When he bets the river, I think I'm not winning.

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I am raising KJo out of the SB vs two limpers with a TAG BB a LOT, and KTs/KTo against the right limpers/BB. and i'm not even close to the 30/20 tags, more like 25/17.


do you want to fold the turn now?

Re: Folding the river for one bet with top pair...
 

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I am raising KJo out of the SB vs two limpers with a TAG BB a LOT, and KTs/KTo against the right limpers/BB. and i'm not even close to the 30/20 tags, more like 25/17.

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Will you then three-bet the flop and bet all streets?

Everyone seems to think my fold sucks, and maybe it does (I'm here asking for advice, not waving the "look at my awesome saved bet" flag) ... but I don't think it's as bad as some make it out to be. Then again, I could be wrong.

I don't raise KTo or KJo in the SB, I think that's going too far. The TAG BB will call often, and it looks like you're saying you want a fold.

Re: Folding the river for one bet with top pair...
 

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You and I may be the only ones to not think it's awful. I'm not saying it's right — and after reading these responses, I'd call next time — but I don't think it's as bad as some say.

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Allow me to use this opportunity to mention one of my pet peeves (not directed at anyone in particlar). I see little point when people lambaste a particular decision as "awful," or some other derogatory term. If the decision is wrong, who cares what degree of "bad" it is? It's fine to specify multiple reasons why a decision is wrong; but I get aggravated when they just proclaim that something is "absurd" or "heinous," as if the stronger language somehow makes their position more convincing.

Anyway, so long as you understand that the decision is incorrect, that's what's important.

Re: Folding the river for one bet with top pair...
 

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If the decision is wrong, who cares what degree of "bad" it is?

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In some ways, you're right. But in poker we can try and affix a range of hands and probabilities and work out the general EV of a decision.