Re: 215s - Standard Stop and Go?
 

This is a very clever move...

Re: 215s - Standard Stop and Go?
 

Excuse my stupidity, but what is a Stop N Go, how is it performed, and at what levels does it become important to know? I hear of it alot..

Thanks!

Re: 215s - Standard Stop and Go?
 

Why stop and go here?

Re: 215s - Standard Stop and Go?
 

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Excuse my stupidity, but what is a Stop N Go, how is it performed, and at what levels does it become important to know? I hear of it alot..

Thanks!

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a play where you call a raise in the BB with the intention of pushing on any flop. The best time to do it is when you hold a medium to small pair and you suspect your opponent hold overcards. If you move all-in preflop your opponent will have pot odds to call. If you wait to move in on the flop and your opponent misses (which he will ~2/3 of the time) your opponent will often fold. This lets you win the pot anytime the turn or river would have beaten you.

Paul

Re: 215s - Standard Stop and Go?
 

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However, my agrgument is that the stop n go is virtually rendered useless here with this stack size.

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Are you saying that what we'll have left is too small in relation to the button's stack to ever get him to fold the flop? I'm not sure that is true... if he's agro enough to push a lot of hands there, it's awful hard to call a flop push with something like 93o after you whiff.

I would agree that he's never folding the flop if he catches a piece. If he only folds when we're ahead on the flop, is a stop n go the best play here? We're a ~75% favorite at that point.

Or is that assumption off?

Re: 215s - Standard Stop and Go?
 

[ QUOTE ]

Are you saying that what we'll have left is too small in relation to the button's stack to ever get him to fold the flop? I'm not sure that is true... if he's agro enough to push a lot of hands there, it's awful hard to call a flop push with something like 93o after you whiff.

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If he's aware enough to be aggro, he's probably aware that you're likely pulling a stop and go and that he'll frequently be getting a correct price to draw to six outs when he whiffs. You're right, I had missed that the BB is tight and is unlikely to come along, but I think the stop and go isn't going to help much here. I guess it doesn't hurt much either.

Re: 215s - Standard Stop and Go?
 

Honestly it probably matters very little what you do here. The BB will call pretty rarely whether you raise or not, and only slightly more if you don't raise, at least I think so. Meanwhile there is always the slight glimmer of a chance that you get the button to fold preflop.

These two factors probably cancel out. When this is the case I usually go for the more straightforward play, which is to just move allin preflop.

Re: 215s - Standard Stop and Go?
 

I think you're remaining chips aren't enough to get him to fold on the flop. I think you're probably going to get called here most of the time in either spot just based on pot odds and his stack size - so i go for the simplest move - just pushing.

Re: 215s - Standard Stop and Go?
 

Thanks for posting this, I have learnt something today. I really like your play and would have played it exactly the same, however I didnt even consider the BB, so I now have changed my mind to the preflop push.

Re: 215s - Standard Stop and Go?
 

Meh. You're not really going to gain all that much post-flop here with a stop n go. If you had a few more chips perhaps it'd be more effective. The BB however now has tremendous pot odds (even though he can't really spare the chips) and I'd hate to see him expand his playable range here by 5% of hands. He's getting like 3 to 1 or something ludicrous and you've shown weakness.

I'd just push but I'm not sure it matters a ton here.

Yugoslav