Re: Why do we fold QTo from UTG?
 

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You're always up against 9 random hands at a 10 handed table.

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That misses the point. You aren't sure the players with trash like 52o will limp behind you. You aren't sure a player with TT behind you won't raise. The players who see the flop will have better than average hands, particularly when weighted by the money you have to put in.

Re: Why do we fold QTo from UTG?
 

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Another advantage of T9s is you will fold it on the flop unless you get a four flush, open-ended straight draw, a set or two pair.

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Not really. Not in loose limit games because of the times a giant pot forces you to peel with a weaker draw, and not in tight limit games where a shorthanded situation means your top pair, weak kicker might be good.

Re: Why do we fold QTo from UTG?
 

Random hands include good and bad hands. You don't play Q 10 UTG because you have 9 hands in front of you that might raise and, on top of that, you will be OOP for the entire hand.

Re: Why do we fold QTo from UTG?
 

I don't always fold it UTG; however, you must know the table where you are playing. If the players are playing loose agressive poker and are all calling stations, I will give it a shot once in awhile, but will fold it if I don't hit something I can work with. The obvious reasons 910s is a better hand is that you have a flush draw and a str8 possibility, but it can be dangerous because often you will get beated by a higher straight. Next if you do choose Q10o from UTG, there are three hands that could have a Q that will beat you when one or both of those last two queens hit on the flop and end up being the top pair, unless you hit your 10 and sometimes even when you do, you are going to spend your stack unless you have the foresight to see that you are out kicked.

I play online for a living and can tell you that more often than not I will always fold Q10 UTG and most of the time play 109s if I can get in for the one bet. My only exception is if I am playing a 6-handed ring game then I tend to play both of them only if I can get in for one bet with the Q10 and two bets with the 109s. I will never call more than 2x the BB with either UTG at a full 6-handed game.

Hope this has helped you out with those two hands.

Re: Why do we fold QTo from UTG?
 

Okay, let me rephrase it. You learn more from the flop with T9s than QTo.

T9s can flop a flush draw, QTo won't unless there are three suited cards on board, and even then QTo could easily be beaten if the A or K of the suit is out.

T9s can flop three different open-ended straight draws and four different straights, QTo can only flop two different OESD's and three different straights.

They hands have the same chances for full houses, sets and two pair.

T9s will usually fold if only a pair flops with nothing better. QTo can't fold those hands if it is to have any significant chance of winning the pot. If you're going to fold a pair on the flop, you should fold preflop.

Re: Why do we fold QTo from UTG?
 

The main reason to fold these hands is that when you improve, the chances of your opponents improving also is very high.

If so, you almost always beaten and/or outkicked

These hands in almost any seat are the classic "win a small pot or lose a big pot" scenario. Why bother?

Re: Why do we fold QTo from UTG?
 

Q7o is the "median" hand I believe, better than half the hands heads up, worse than half the hands heads up


But as one of my poker books says, I forget which one

"the only hand thats rewarded is the best hand. Being 2nd best is no good. Being a little above average is totally worthless"

That's why you don't play QTo.

Re: Why do we fold QTo from UTG?
 

does pokerstove take position into consideration?

Re: Why do we fold QTo from UTG?
 

A lot of these sims also assume that everyone is staying in through the river -- akin to everyone having precisely 1 small bet in front of them -- something also not realistic.


Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

Re: Why do we fold QTo from UTG?
 

I think you'd be better off raising QT UTG than just calling it. I will do this occaisionally to keep my opponents guessing.