Re: 10/20 37s
 

Trix pretty much answered why I bet the flop. Assuming I get a few callers, I want money going in this pot on the flop. I couldn't count on the pfr to bet it for me since he's so passive. On that flop, even if the pfr raises, a lot of hands will call.

Re: 10/20 37s
 

[ QUOTE ]
There's no reason for deception in this hand. Either you make the flush and drag the pot or you don't. You'll be getting the right odds. Trying to conceal that you have a flush draw on the off chance of maybe (very dubious) making another BB or two on the end is just getting greedy imo.

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I'm not sure how you got that out of what I said. Deception for another BB on the end? I mentioned giving your hand away but it had little to do with my point. And getting greedy? Come on. My point is that if you're going to coldcall a raise back to you, and with 5 people behind you it's likely to be bet/raised, you're better off betting out.

Re: 10/20 37s
 

Ok, I guess I insinuated too much. One last bit though.

Why is this?

"My point is that if you're going to coldcall a raise back to you, and with 5 people behind you it's likely to be bet/raised, you're better off betting out."

What's the effective difference?

- Jim

Re: 10/20 37s
 

[ QUOTE ]
Check/call this flop, you are risking paying through the nose on such a flop by betting out.

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Doesn't that depend on how many people come along? I want to see one or 2 bets go in on this round with 5 people seeing hte turn. I'm not offended by that. I'm not going to get crazy with it, after all it's only a 7 high flush, if we can't depend on the continuation bet, why not bet it?

Re: 10/20 37s
 

BigE, with a flush draw, you want to cap the flop so long as you get 2 players to come along with you. True, discount this on a paired board, and it is better if you also have an overcard, but 4-flushes flops will flush out 35% of the time.

Re: 10/20 37s
 

Leading out for 2 reasons. It puts immediate pressure on the other EP guys, not letting them get a sense of what the action is before they have to act. The flop is multi-way, likely to get action and I know I'm playing it, so I'd rather act than react. I just think check/coldcalling is weak and would rather bet/call instead.

Re: 10/20 37s
 

[ QUOTE ]
BigE, with a flush draw, you want to cap the flop so long as you get 2 players to come along with you. True, discount this on a paired board, and it is better if you also have an overcard, but 4-flushes flops will flush out 35% of the time.

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Honestly, i think this is horrible advice. There are re-draws to higher flushes a decent percent of the time, a higher flush draw a small percent of the time, and a set with a huge redraw a small percent of the time. You can't blindly say that u have 35% equity here so you should cap. You don't.

I am definitely in the c/c this flop camp. And i'm also three betting the turn. You don't want an overcall here. If u have the nut flush draw with an overcard, i would bet out.

Re: 10/20 37s
 

I don't agree with this. You are 2-1 to improve by the river, but in limit poker you have to pay to get there virtually all of the time.

To be for pure value, you need the number of players involved in the street to exceed the odds of getting there on the next street. And there are also reverse implied odds you inflict on yourself in other situations (flush draw and overs if you hit your over on the end and have to make a thin call in a 10BB pot).

If you're constantly jamming draws on flops with only two opponents for pure value, I think you're misguided.

- Jim

Re: 10/20 37s
 

[ QUOTE ]
Leading out for 2 reasons. It puts immediate pressure on the other EP guys, not letting them get a sense of what the action is before they have to act. The flop is multi-way, likely to get action and I know I'm playing it, so I'd rather act than react. I just think check/coldcalling is weak and would rather bet/call instead.

[/ QUOTE ]

What types of hands do you want to "put the pressure on"? It will make it tougher for Ac/ Kc/ Qc ( to call if u lead as long as they don't hit another part of the flop). But then again, if UTG is calling with Ac3h or some other random crap, do u really think he's the type to fold this b/c he anticipates it getting raised behind him? Do u think that the cold-callers that have one of these hands are going to fold even if it's raised in front of them. They would have to be cold-calling with one of these hands, which makes me think that they aren't the type to fold.

Any pair hand, i want to stay in the hand b/c it increases my overlay. Most gutshots/ OESDs will stick around anyhow (which u should want), and the only real coup would be to get a hand like Qc8h to fold, but again, if they're here with that hand, they're sticking around.

As for the value part, i would estimate u have 28-30 % equity (a completely random estimate and if someone can think of a way to do the math, i would appreciate it), so i can see it being for value, but u also may blow off the LP players if there's a bet and a raise before them, which decreases ur overlay. If u start getting funky with a c/r , then MP may 3-bet and get this HU, so i don't like that so much either.

As for the second reason, i don't really get this. Is this just part of "me have equity me raise me not weak" 2+2 mantra?

Re: 10/20 37s
 

im quite surprised at how many ppl like to pump their 7 high flush draws.