Re: Ugly JJ line
 

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How about a donkey raise on that flop and check behind on turn?

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What does that accomplish? What better hands are you folding? Why build a pot with 2nd pair? Try to get to a showdown cheap after that horrible flop.

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So that I can safely laydown JJ against further aggression. Also lots of villian goes to check check mode with a queen here. I can see next 2 cards for $2.
Of course, I laydown to a pot size bet and I do agree majority of time he has a queen in this spot.

Re: Ugly JJ line
 

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How about a donkey raise on that flop and check behind on turn?


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What does that accomplish? What better hands are you folding? Why build a pot with 2nd pair? Try to get to a showdown cheap after that horrible flop.


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I would raise flop as well, I don't understand why this is a "horrible" flop. Its not great, but hero has best hand a good percentage of the time, and on a draw heavy flop like that I raise fairly often. We're not gonna fold anything we beat, but we can charge hands that have outs against us.

As played though, I'm probably folding the turn as well.

Re: Ugly JJ line
 

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How about a donkey raise on that flop and check behind on turn?

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What does that accomplish? What better hands are you folding? Why build a pot with 2nd pair? Try to get to a showdown cheap after that horrible flop.

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I think in this spot, we get to showdown cheaper (against hands that we are ahead of/ or that are drawing) by raising the flop. I was probably lucky in this hand that he bet the turn light.

Re: Ugly JJ line
 

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I don't understand why this is a "horrible" flop.

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2 spades and 2 Broadway cards. There are almost more scare cards than safe cards left in the deck. I agree that hero is ahead most of the time and raising the flop for a healthy amount to charge draws is standard. I just think at some point you have to stop throwing money in the pot with what most likely will end up being a marginal holding.

Getting to a cheap showdown should be the only goal of this hand. I think there are a couple of ways to accomplish it (including raising the flop). The key is to have a plan.

Another thought: Why aggressively contest a small pot with a marginal holding?

Re: Ugly JJ line
 

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I don't understand why this is a "horrible" flop.

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Getting to a cheap showdown should be the only goal of this hand.

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Dont u think min raise have better chance of achieving this goal than calling?

Re: Ugly JJ line
 

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Why aggressively contest a small pot with a marginal holding?


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I agree about having a plan. I think raising the flop will often get the turn checked to us, which helps us get to the river cheaper.

I like being aggresive in a pot like this because I'm aggressive with a lot of hands here, and because I think it will often win us the pot right here or allow us to better control the rest of the hand.

Re: Ugly JJ line
 

raise flop, fold to a reraise or a bet on the turn.

if no bet on turn check behind, then check fold river unless you hit you straight.

Re: Ugly JJ line
 

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raise flop, fold to a reraise or a bet on the turn.

if no bet on turn check behind, then check fold river unless you hit you straight.

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No, just fold flop, no reason to fight over this pot at all.

Re: Ugly JJ line
 

If you decide to play jj passively like this, I think you should call the river bet. Nothing worse than calling flop, calling turn, folding river to bets that are not very big. I'd much rather make the mistake of calling a loser on the river than the one of folding to a smallish bet on the river after calling two streets.

Looks to me like villain has a t, q, or draw, though smaller one pair hands are possible. Decide on the flop what you think his hand range is and play accordingly. You can put him to the test by raising him on the flop. You very easily could have aa, kk, qq, tt, aq, kq, kjs. Or you can play the hand passively, as you've done, but then I'd call the river bet and make a note. 15 dollars is very easy to get back and well worth the cost of finding out how he plays from the sb. What kind of hand does he lead into the preflop raiser with for 1/2 pot is what I want to know.

Re: Ugly JJ line
 

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raise flop, fold to a reraise or a bet on the turn.

if no bet on turn check behind, then check fold river unless you hit you straight.

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No, just fold flop, no reason to fight over this pot at all.

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Im not so sure about this. There are several cards that could fall on the turn that help you, say the Ks for example. A flop raise could give you the chance to check behind on a helpful turn and get a free draw for your straight/ flush on the river.