Re: Triple Draw Decision-- Wynn 10/20 Mixed
 

I like this thread, I am just getting a feel for the game. I never heard of 10-20 mixed game before, that sounds like fun. What is the mix?

Anyways, I like your analysis about standing pat. Its just my feel that your hand beats SB, I had a similar hand once, but its nice to see some TD math. By standing pat after you bet the "turn" and he stands pat, you have shown great strength and will get a free showdown a great deal of the time unless someone draws out.

Re: Triple Draw Decision-- Wynn 10/20 Mixed
 

The 10-20 Mixed at the Wynn was going pretty regularly while I was there, though often short-handed. It's T-Horse: Triple Draw, Holdem, Omaha/8, Razz, Stud hi, and Stud/8.

Re: Triple Draw Decision-- Wynn 10/20 Mixed
 

Not that it matters, but I'll give results:

I draw and pair my 5. Death Donkey and the button both draw 1 (to 7s, it turned out) and brick. SB takes the pot down with 98632.

I felt like I maybe was being a bit results-oriented in questioning my draw, but I do think it's right to stand. I think this was one of the useful results situations where the outcome of the hand encouraged me to realize something I hadn't thought about (which was that my 98 perfect was actually beating a ton of hands which SB could have been playing that way) and hence improved my understanding of the game.

I just really wish I had held 97653 or something instead of 98 perfect so I would have had a better excuse not to draw.

Re: Triple Draw Decision-- Wynn 10/20 Mixed
 

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I wonder who the SB is in this hand. I play in that game regularly and if he's the moron who usually checks calls while standing pat then you should definietly not draw.

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I think this sort of read is really necessary, if you're going to claim standing was right. It takes a very special kind of idiot to c/c and stand into three players with something worse than #34.

Re: Triple Draw Decision-- Wynn 10/20 Mixed
 

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I wonder who the SB is in this hand. I play in that game regularly and if he's the moron who usually checks calls while standing pat then you should definietly not draw.

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I think this sort of read is really necessary, if you're going to claim standing was right. It takes a very special kind of idiot to c/c and stand into three players with something worse than #34.

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What hands are good to check/call and stand pat with in a 4 way pot. Well, that's a terrible way to play any hand. Still, I think you'd have to be massively bad to do that with an 8. It's not exactly the most subtle read in this situation.

Re: Triple Draw Decision-- Wynn 10/20 Mixed
 

Yeah, fwiw he's the only regular in that game against whom I would stand pat here. He plays such unbelieveably horrendous 2-7, like, I just can't say enough about it. He's decent in the other games but he'll definietly checkcall oop against 2+ players and then stand pat with a crappy T or 9 justifying it by saying "well, if i draw i have to draw 3." He would be worth it if the game was only triple draw but he doesn't give enough action in the other games to justify him being a huge pain in the ass.

I should make it clear that standing there is almost never correct of course.

Re: Triple Draw Decision-- Wynn 10/20 Mixed
 

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What hands are good to check/call and stand pat with in a 4 way pot. Well, that's a terrible way to play any hand. Still, I think you'd have to be massively bad to do that with an 8. It's not exactly the most subtle read in this situation.

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The problem is, there's no unbreakable worse 9 that's particularly believable here, unless you're willing to believe SB is going to three-bet and draw one with something like 8754. Those players aren't very common. In contrast I see players take this line with 8xxx3 all the time.

Similarly, standing into multiple players with 98xx3 or 98xx2 is pretty uncommon. Just about everyone draws at those.

I agree that you have to be very bad to take the check-call and stand line at all. But the common very bad player is nearly always doing this with an 8.

Re: Triple Draw Decision-- Wynn 10/20 Mixed
 

Nobody likes raising with the 8432x after one draw? That seems like a pure value raise 4 ways but my math isn't the best. I am still in shock I didn't win this hand, sounds like I had a monster draw [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

-DeathDonkey

Re: Triple Draw Decision-- Wynn 10/20 Mixed
 

I think raising is probably the best move. Not only for value, but for the small possibility that you can buy the button or break a weak pat hand.

This is one of those spots that I'm usually aggressive that I don't think you lose a ton by being passive. It does make later decisions easier when you're drawing dead though.

Re: Triple Draw Decision-- Wynn 10/20 Mixed
 

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Nobody likes raising with the 8432x after one draw? That seems like a pure value raise 4 ways but my math isn't the best. I am still in shock I didn't win this hand, sounds like I had a monster draw [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

-DeathDonkey

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DD,

You know what... I probably screwed up the action on those earlier streets, to be honest. From my point of view that does look like an obvious value raise. So I imagine something else happened.

In retrospect, what I think happened was that after the first draw I double-bricked and drew 2 cards again, and picked up the 9 and the 8. I then bet when checked to after the first draw.

I agree though that that's a pretty standard value raise there.

I think you claimed to be drawing to a 7 ...