Re: to live or not to live (the lesser of two evils)--kind of long
 

strange thing, dying.

I had a teacher who told me about his father, and how his father was the most stubborn, toughest guy he ever knew in his entire life up till the day he was in a hospital bed and about to die.

And all he cared and cried about his final days was that he HAD to have his wife and family there cause he was so scared of dying alone.

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After my nice pleasant bout with suicidal depression, I've never really been scared of dying either, per se, but I've been scared as hell of dying alone - that's the only terrible thing I can imagine about dying anymore. In fact, I just had a terrible scare after this post - (that had been building for a couple days) that my Dad might have just died alone in the woods and it freaked me out enough to call my bro. back.

Sounds like that's not happening here either. So again, I would tell him not to be too upset about it - - I think what Tdarko's family is doing is acceptable.

I do NOT want this to drift into a political or theological argument statement, (as Tdarko said earlier - wrong forum for both) - but I'll put it this way -

I don't believe there's a God in Heaven who's gonna judge his family for murder or call them a sinner for what's happening.

RB

Re: to live or not to live (the lesser of two evils)--kind of long
 

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Afraid To Die

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me too Aloysius, me too. i am certainly afraid of the unknown, i will not go further b/c its the wrong forum for that.

Re: to live or not to live (the lesser of two evils)--kind of long
 

Due to the nature of my family situation, I have had to deal with the deterioration of several family members in the past few years(five different people, I think). After watching the person that we loved fade into oblivion, and be replaced by someone who doesn't recognize us or know what day it is, and seeing the toll it took on my parents to have to deal with that, I can say with no hesitation that faster is better. It was sad when they died, sure...and hard to see them go, but sadness was competing with relief at that point...and who wants people to be relieved that they are dead?

It boils down to quality of life. Everyone slows down as they age, but until recently, there was only so much modern medicine could do to prolong life. Now, we are able to sustain people in bodies and minds that are long-since used up.

Do I condone euthanasia? No. But do I think that we should use machines to force people in their eighties and nineties to breathe and eat food, when they would have simply passed on years before if not for them? Absolutely not. I couldn't stand being laid up for two months with my ankle recovering from surgery...I can't imagine enduring years of invalidity...seems like one concept of hell to me.

It's just funny to me that we don't let our pets suffer the same way we let our human loved ones suffer...seems a bit out of whack.

Re: to live or not to live (the lesser of two evils)--kind of long
 

first off, excuse my bad english. it's not my native tongue and i used some words in this post i never even heard before...

my granddad had a light stroke 12 years ago. from then on his mind started to disintegrate. 8 years ago there were days where he wouldn't recognize me or other family members and he started to lose control of his body. he became more and more apathetic. 5 years ago you could hardly talk to him about the weather, -except for some rare good days. he was a strong nursing case at this time, laying in bed almost all day. the last 3 years i have only heard grunting noises from him. sometimes he realised when someone entered the room, but most of the time not. we tried to take care of him at home as long as we could, but 2 years ago he came into nursing home. he died last summer with 91 years.

while his mind was gone, his organs were healthy all the time. no plugs to pull. it was hard to see what a strong man like my grandad could become...

i am young and i know it is easy to say something like that now, but i don't want my life to end this way. and in case my life will be depending on some machines, with no hope to become worth living again, i really hope whoever has to decide will have the courage to pull the plug.

Re: to live or not to live (the lesser of two evils)--kind of long
 

I agree with astro et al. it is true that life is crappy at that end, but it's life. faced with the choice between miserable life and the void, I'd go with miserable life.

but that's just me. I think it depends on the person's wishes. in this specific case it appears that dude wants to live.

blarg--I never considered the selfishness argument before. that's an interesting point. I always felt bad for not caring more when someone dies. I never considered that anyone else had anything but sympathy for the dying.

Re: to live or not to live (the lesser of two evils)--kind of long
 

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I think it depends on the person's wishes. in this specific case it appears that dude wants to live.


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it does depend on a person's wishes and if he/she is not able to coherently make a decision then of course it's on someone else...

my ex-gf is a nurse and she said that more times than not the person wants to keep the plug in, and almost always if its up to a relative or loved one they choose life. this is why i think our family is not in the norm, we are somewhat of a hard-nosed family, a military family and my father is pretty much the head of the family (though he has 3 sisters and 4 brothers) and makes all of the decisions. he proposed the idea and everyone agreed. yet this isn't the norm. why?

again this is why i think my mother had a valid point, everyone one can say what they want when not facing death but when the time comes can you kill yourself? can you kill your father? your mother?

Re: to live or not to live (the lesser of two evils)--kind of long
 

i'm not actually saying i'd go with the miserable life. i don't think i would, but i can't really know until it happens.

Re: to live or not to live (the lesser of two evils)--kind of long
 

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so the question is do you sit and watch a person that you love suffer till their death or do you pull the plug on them? i am asking (sorry if it has been asked before) b/c i honestly don't know how to feel in this situation and either way feels [censored] up.

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I would rather a loved one die than suffer the rest of their life in unimaginable pain. I had to euthanize my dog a few months ago because he was suffering from terminal bone cancer. He had a hard time moving around and was slowly becoming unable to do all the things that make life worth living. I decided it was selfish for me to force him to keep on living when he could die with peace and dignity.

A month later, my grandmother broke her hip and after various complications(she was already suffering from multiple serious illnesses) she was placed in hospice. Instead of allowing her to die with dignity, she was maintained in a semi-vegitative state for weeks after she had already made her peace with her loved ones and clearly passed the point of no return. This type of unnatural life prolonging does nothing but cause suffering for all involved.

Re: to live or not to live (the lesser of two evils)--kind of long
 

I am for pulling the plug, and in certain circumstances actually doing the killing. Its very stupid do have someone lying on there death bed, with no hope of a cure and making them suffer an extra week just because "all life is precious". People should be allowed to die with dignity and not be forced to suffer pointlessly. as for your grandpa, Once the decision is made that its best for him not to go on, I would want it to be as painless as possible (heavy drugs, up to the point of being lethal if necessary).

One thing though, is that the state your grampa is in sounds like I would still prefer it to death. Ya taking pills sucks, and so does chronic pain, but I think you can still get some good out of life.

P.S. sorry about your grandpa.

Re: to live or not to live (the lesser of two evils)--kind of long
 

in my case and in most of my family's case we also have a fairly strong religious faith that gives us good comfort for the afterlife -

Maybe we're wrong, and maybe it's a crutch, but it helps me occasionally.

RB