Re: Hand that knocked out Josh Arrieh in WPT Qualifier Last Night
 

I used the other line, but thats a good 1 also.
Should have put that in the chat box with him. LOL
Next time I will.

Re: Hand that knocked out Josh Arrieh in WPT Qualifier Last Night
 

There is no way that anybody who has posted in this thread is remotely qualified to determine who is better. We simply haven't seen enough actual play from them. Although Greg has been kind enough to give us a lot of insight as to how he plays, its impossible to determine their relative skill levels from what we know.

If you watched 1 out per inning could you tell me whether Barry Bonds was better than Gary Sheffield? I doubt it. Even if the answer is obvious we wouldnt have enough info to judge.

Re: Hand that knocked out Josh Arrieh in WPT Qualifier Last Night
 

FWIW,
Spoke to Josh last night about the hand.
He thought I played it correctly.
Josh also said "It's a hand that you just have to go broke on"

Later

Re: Hand that knocked out Josh Arrieh in WPT Qualifier Last Night
 

[ QUOTE ]


that hand played itself.

[/ QUOTE ]

only questionable thing is the pre-flop call with 44. you'll flop a set 1/8.5. 8.5 * 500 = 4250, and he had ~5600 before the raise (plus the 300 in blind money). you're not going to win the pot very often if you don't flop a set or an OESD. so you need to get his stack very consistently when you flop the set, and to never flop the set and wind up losing.

i'd say around 7500 would be my minimum stack to call there.

Re: Hand that knocked out Josh Arrieh in WPT Qualifier Last Night
 

Could you please elaborate on what you are saying? I do not understand.

Re: Hand that knocked out Josh Arrieh in WPT Qualifier Last Night
 

[ QUOTE ]
There is no way that anybody who has posted in this thread is remotely qualified to determine who is better. We simply haven't seen enough actual play from them. Although Greg has been kind enough to give us a lot of insight as to how he plays, its impossible to determine their relative skill levels from what we know.

If you watched 1 out per inning could you tell me whether Barry Bonds was better than Gary Sheffield? I doubt it. Even if the answer is obvious we wouldnt have enough info to judge.

[/ QUOTE ]

Totaly correct.
Also Josh has a pretty impressive resume of World series and WPT events.
Do the naysayers discount the data.
Where I come from, I let the data speak for itself.

2004 final table results
Tournament / Event Date Place Points Winnings
2004 Borgata Poker Open
No-Limit Hold'em Final Day 9/22/04 3 960 $286,900
2004 35th Annual World Series of Poker
No-Limit Hold'em World Championship Final Day 5/28/04 3 1,280 $2,500,000
2004 L.A. Poker Classic
Seven Card Stud High-Low 8/OB Final Day 2/19/04 5 100 $7,290

Re: Hand that knocked out Josh Arrieh in WPT Qualifier Last Night
 

Have you played with Raymer, Zaxx? Have you played with Arieh? I've played with both and can't really say who is better, they both are very skilled and have similar playing styles.

To say that Arieh is 8 times better than Raymer is clearly ridiculous and foolish.

Where do you get these opoinions from, Zax? Seriously.

Peace

Goodie

Re: Hand that knocked out Josh Arrieh in WPT Qualifier Last Night
 

Lets round out that list...Brunson, havent played with him, Cloutier, havent played with him, Negreanu,nope havent sat with him, Juanda, Hey I actually sat with guy once!!! I also havent caught Greg Maddux. Oh and I never played pitch and catch with Joe Montana. Can I make judgements on the relative skill level of Montana or Maddux?? Yes I believe I can reasonably speculate on how good they are. Is it a definitive ranking?? Nope certainly not.(I assert there is no such thing thing as a "definitive" ranking in anything one glance at the BCS system shows how hard it is to judge relative skill between 2 entities) The point is while it is great that poker allows one accesibilty to the "stars of the game" I wouldnt say that an individual has no right to draw comnclusion on said players without playing with them. Personally I believe Arieh is the more accomplished of the two. I also believe results before and after the 2004 WSOP point to this being the case; as did Raymer's play in a 2 million dollar freeroll(seems like alot of incentive to bring his A game)with the top players in the world. Raymer played a fearlessly aggresive, and furious WSOP. He also got alot of hands and won more than his share of races. He deserved to win the WSOP bc he played a style that allowed him to win; and congratulagions to him on the title. ON the other hand, Arieh has derived the better part of his living from poker for a decade now and has consistently played at a worldclass level. Raymer has been an accomplished and very skilled amateur for a long time and won the biggest most heralded poker tournament. Based on those two things you MAY draw conclusions on the relative level of the two or you may choose not to. I chose the former.

Re: Hand that knocked out Josh Arrieh in WPT Qualifier Last Night
 

HOW DID YOU NOT CHECK IN THE DARK HERE?????????????????


Okay, on a serious note - I don't know if I liked the call with 44. This is not a great hand, and given that Arieh's bet came from a steal position, he could be betting with any 2 cards that are both higher than 4.

if the flop comes T 9 5 - is this a fold?

Obviously I don't know the table dynamics, or how far from the bubble you are, but I like to push around my big stack a bit.

I might do a re-raise here, and bet any raggedy flop.

Re: Hand that knocked out Josh Arrieh in WPT Qualifier Last Night
 

Your conclusions seem valid at first glance. I'll discredit them one by one.

The analogy to Baseball and Football are ridiculous. It has been discussed endlessly on this site that we can't really form any worthwhile conclutions because when we are watching on TV we only see a very small portion of the hands in question. When you watch a certain pitcher's performance on the mound, you can see his entire outing, from start to finish. You don't have to catch him to do that. It's on TV. Unfortunatly, you DO have to play with a poker player to get a full sense of how he plays. You have not with either player, so your oponion is invalid.

I'll go further, though. Did you ever think that the reason you haven't seen Fossilman's name at the top of the leaderboard of a lot of these tournaments is because he doesn't play in them? Novel idea, huh? He has not been a professional poker player (unlike Josh) and niether I nor you can make a judgement as to whether or not he could make a living playing poker. I choose to believe he could because I've watched him played and played with him many times.

How is it that you can make a judgement on results when one player has played in most large tournaments all around the world for the past several years and one that has not.

That's like trying to compare Dan Marino's Super Bowl record to Joe Montana's Super Bowl Record.

Peace

Goodie