Re: Calling down TAGs - losing strategy?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Betfold is bad on the river. No way he calls you with a worse hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP sir... he is definately not calling with a worse hand, only raising an ace or a bluff, so even when you are ahead you cant call the bluff-raise, check/call again on the river if you've come this far

No one donks this with an ace, and everyone knows this, so youve defined your hand exactly, and are only getting called by a better king, raised by an ace, or by a good player... raised with rags, knowing you are bet/folding

Betting this river loses you more than 1 BB. 99% of the time you are either called or raised with a better hand, or else you fold a worse one, and 1% of the time he bluff raises you which costs you the entire pot. Check/calling nets you all the times he bets again with rags, and gets you to showdown for 1 bet

Re: Calling down TAGs - losing strategy?
 

I would probably reraise a good chunk of the time pre-flop to take control of the hand and for meta-game, especially against his range on the button. Other than that it looks like a good call down...

Does anyone raise this turn and lead out on river?

Re: Calling down TAGs - losing strategy?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think you should either check/fold or bet/fold the river, and I like bet/fold since it tends to get you to showdown.

[/ QUOTE ]
What if the TAG in this case is a known 2+2er?

Re: Calling down TAGs - losing strategy?
 

Ehh it's tougher. If you are really sure he knows what he's doing then you should check/fold river because he's neither betting nor calling with any worse hands. Frankly though, there are lots of 2+2ers with solid stats who still make pretty bad and frequent postflop errors. So it depends on how much you trust him to not be playing dumbly with something like QQ or K6.

Re: Calling down TAGs - losing strategy?
 

Your hand is strong enough to see the river against a stealraise. I don't even like bet-fold on the river that much. The right Tag can think your putting a move on the river, then raise you off it and your total purpose is defeated. Check-call is perfect IMO. Sure, you lose a bet to some worse hands. If you must bet the river, then I feel you must call the raise and hate it, which is why I like the check-call better. Let the aggressor bet your hand for you throughout. He may even lead the river for you on a total whiff like a busted weak draw or hopeless pocket pair. He also may lead with a big PP less than KK.

Just my opinion: this will likely get some debate.

pal

Re: Calling down TAGs - losing strategy?
 

[ QUOTE ]

makes a bad call (after a bad turn bet) with a PP


[/ QUOTE ]

Why is a turn bet with a PP so bad? Suppose he has e.g. 88. There are plenty of players who defend preflop and call the flop with hands that have six outs against 88. Why would button be wrong to bet for protection against these hands?

Guy.

Re: Calling down TAGs - losing strategy?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think you should either check/fold or bet/fold the river, and I like bet/fold since it tends to get you to showdown.

[/ QUOTE ]
What if the TAG in this case is a known 2+2er?

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps-known-2+2-er showed down a middle ace...