Re: big pot, double belly, cold call
 

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BTW I dont like your position for the preflop raise of QJs. I know that its marginal since there are only 6 players but I still think I would be limping this more than raising it.

Greg

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There is an error in my history. There were two folds to me. I've got QTs. This was a steal attempt at best, and I was trying to buy the button.

Re: big pot, double belly, cold call
 

I would 3-bet.

Lets say that you have about 8.5 outs for your OC's, gut-shot and BDFD. Edit: I missed the double gut-shot, so you have about 12.5 outs. Even more reason to reraise.

The pot is big enough to justify continuing in the hand. I would reraise to try to drive out the button. Also raising might buy you a free card on the turn if you need one.

Raising might also improve your chances of winning if you pair either of your hole cards, if it causes anyone who shares one of your cards with a better kicker to fold.

Re: big pot, double belly, cold call
 

How do we not have equity to raise with 9 outs on the turn? I guess you base that on the fact that SB may fold if you raise?

Re: big pot, double belly, cold call
 

Fuh, your raise is standard in a shorthanded situtation. QTs is more than enough of a hand to open in the CO.

Am I the only one thinking of 3-betting in this situtation? The two most likely outcomes are either your 3-bet slows people down enough to take a free card on the turn (if you so choose), or that the SB and BB are looking to stack off and the flop is getting capped anyway. You lose only if the BB has a hand he is willing to cap and the SB is not willing to 3-bet his hand now.

The 3-bet may be -EV in terms of pure value, as I am putting Hero's hand at roughly 10.5 outs -- 7 for the double gutter [a 7 puts four to a straight on the board, making it likely to chop and killing any other action], 1.5 for the BDFD, 1.5 for your Q outs, and .5 outs for your T (as that puts 4 to a gutshot on the board, while leaving lots of overs drawing live). However, the fact that hero has position plus any initative/free card benefits he may gain should tip the scale ever so slightly the other way.

-K

Re: big pot, double belly, cold call
 

Fixed the hand history. I'm putting BB on big cards or maybe a mid-big pair. Again, haven't seen him play. I don't like my overcard outs really. Maybe SB has top pair or two pair. I just called this one.


Should I put a value bet on this turn (after button's donk)?

Preflop: Hero is CO with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button calls, SB calls, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (12.00 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, Hero calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Turn: (10.00 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, SB calls, BB calls, Hero ???.

Re: big pot, double belly, cold call
 

[ QUOTE ]

There is an error in my history. There were two folds to me. I've got QTs. This was a steal attempt at best, and I was trying to buy the button.

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You don't have "at best" a steal attempt. You have a good hand that has a likely equity edge at a five handed table in the CO. You would raise AA there, right? Of course you would. QTs certainly doesn't have the equity edge that AA does, but it's edge is nonetheless real.

Re: big pot, double belly, cold call
 

[ QUOTE ]
Fixed the hand history. I'm putting BB on big cards or maybe a mid-big pair. Again, haven't seen him play. I don't like my overcard outs really. Maybe SB has top pair or two pair. I just called this one.


Should I put a value bet on this turn (after button's donk)?

Preflop: Hero is CO with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button calls, SB calls, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (12.00 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, Hero calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Turn: (10.00 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, SB calls, BB calls, Hero ???.

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With the folds in front this is an easy raise pf. I dont like that you still have so many people calling in raises etc on the turn. After callign the bet you have to call the raise to see the river. The pot is huge.

Greg

Re: big pot, double belly, cold call
 

[ QUOTE ]
Turn: (10.00 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, SB calls, BB calls, Hero ???.

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Is this really a question? You're getting 17:1 and closing the action. You could call a lone gutshot, here. If you're asking should you raise, I see no reason to reopen the betting.

Re: big pot, double belly, cold call
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

There is an error in my history. There were two folds to me. I've got QTs. This was a steal attempt at best, and I was trying to buy the button.

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You don't have "at best" a steal attempt. You have a good hand that has a likely equity edge at a five handed table in the CO. You would raise AA there, right? Of course you would. QTs certainly doesn't have the equity edge that AA does, but it's edge is nonetheless real.

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Yeah, it's a good hand. It's 6-handed. I'm guessing I throw it away if MP bets? Again, I'm not used to short-handed, but I try to refer to this SH chart if I have enough time (I understand it--just haven't memorized it)

Re: big pot, double belly, cold call
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Turn: (10.00 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, SB calls, BB calls, Hero ???.

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Is this really a question? You're getting 17:1 and closing the action. You could call a lone gutshot, here. If you're asking should you raise, I see no reason to reopen the betting.

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Hayell no, I'm not leaving. I'm asking to raise. If there were 5 in, with my 8 double-gut outs, should I be pumping this for pot equity?