Two Plus Two Older Archives - Party 25NL. AK tptk, bets pot gets two callers.

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Re: Party 25NL. AK tptk, bets pot gets two callers.

You gotta do more than minraise PF.

This turn bet has to be able to tell you waht they have by how they react to it. I like around $8. It doesn't price in flush draws and it's big enough to define your hand, it also doesn't get you pot commited in case someone moves in over the top. I should tell you that I just started learning NL.

Re: Party 25NL. AK tptk, bets pot gets two callers.

I THINK HE GETS THE PONIT OF THE BIGGER PREFLOP RAISE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i think he probably got it after the first 4x

Converter wrong??

I think converter screwed up on this one. I raised 0.5 or "to 0.75" Either way it was bad, but that's not the point.

Converter said "raises to 0.5". But if you add up the numbers, four players 0.5 each don't make $3. 0.75 each does.

and in the text of the hand itself, I raised to 0.75.

The Conclusion of the hand

Thank you all for your replies.

Alittle background on myself: I am a 5.5 PTBB/100 player over the last 20k hands at PP 25NL. Nothing to write home about, but not clueless either.

The reason for my pot-building "to 0.75" raise from BB w/AK is that recently I looked at my stats and saw that I am barely breaking even w/AK. So I decided to experiment with different strategies of playing it. My thinking was that if I raise big I only get called by pocket pairs. And some of them tend to soak up continuation bets. So I decided to build the pot so everybody calls. That way I bet my TPTK or check. But that's a discussion for another day.

Let's go back to this exciting hand.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

saw flop|saw showdown

UTG+1 ($24.30)
MP1 ($28.75)
MP2 ($18)
MP3 ($4.75)
CO ($28.30)
Button ($33.10)
SB ($42.75)
Hero ($23.40)
UTG ($15.05)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
UTG calls $0.25, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.25, 2 folds, CO calls $0.25, 1 fold, SB (poster) completes, Hero raises to $0.5, UTG calls $0.50, MP1 calls $0.50, CO calls $0.50, SB folds.

Flop: ($3.25) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets $3, UTG folds, MP1 calls $3, CO calls $3.

Turn: ($12.25) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $3, MP1 calls $3, CO calls $3.

So, based on your answers, I made another mistake. I am giving the right odds for drawing hands. I had an eerie feeling about 2 pot-sized calls so I decided to slow down. But I didn't want to give a free card either. So I bet somwhere in between ...

River: ($21.25) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $3, MP1 calls $22 (All-In), CO folds, Hero calls $13.65 (All-In).

Final Pot: $59.90

I value bet the river.

This last call is basically out of spite. I didn't have a very good self control at that point. At least I quit 4-tabling right after the hand and went to bed, deciding to cut my losses. Of course, I got sucked out on with the last card. classic.

Results in white below: 
Hero has Kh Ad (one pair, aces).
MP1 has 8c Ts (two pair, tens and eights).
Outcome: MP1 wins $59.90.

Re: Party 25NL. AK tptk, bets pot gets two callers.

[ QUOTE ]
when you know you'll be out of position after the flop why aren't you raising more preflop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because he wants more than one caller to play against with a drawing hand. If he misses A or K against one player, he is facing some hard decisions OOP. That is going to happen 2/3 of the time.

Re: Party 25NL. AK tptk, bets pot gets two callers.

Somebody understands!

Re: The Conclusion of the hand

I still don't think you should be making these small raises. (1) you lose the ability to win it preflop. (2) you now encourage people to stay in with crap because they will all have pot odds.

This reminds me of the guys who always minraised with any good hand. Since he had better then a full stack, I began calling with all sorts of junk because I knew he liked his hand and I was getting better then 3 to 1 on my money. Those are the times when you bust the guy with aces when you call with 8-j suited out of position, hit 2 pair and bust them. Then they yell at you for calling with crap.

For the record, I vary how I play AK in the bb. Either I raise big or I limp. Frankly, I think position is so important and I'd rathar play most hands oop weakly for a small pot so that I'm not forced to bet into a field of callers. But, when I do decide to raise it, I'm going to raise it to at least $1.50.

[ QUOTE ]
My thinking was that if I raise big I only get called by pocket pairs.

[/ QUOTE ] You must be at different tables then me. I have people calling raises with A5os and 5-Q suited from any position at the $25 and $50 tables. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
So I decided to build the pot so everybody calls. That way I bet my TPTK or check. But that's a discussion for another day.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think that's a key factor of this hand and should be discussed today. The problem is you're building a pot preflop that you're going to have to play out of position, you haven't narrowed the field... and now your bets are going to have to be large (and obviously larger on the turn and river). Its because of this why, on the turn, you're betting $3 into a $12 pot, giving any type of draw the correct odds to draw out on you. You've bloated the pot and now you can't play it correctly without risking essentially your entire stack on a TPTK hand.

Re: The Conclusion of the hand

[ QUOTE ]
Frankly, I think position is so important and I'd rathar play most hands oop weakly for a small pot so that I'm not forced to bet into a field of callers. But, when I do decide to raise it, I'm going to raise it to at least $1.50.

[/ QUOTE ]

Words to live by

Re: The Conclusion of the hand

Just curious on a related note. Is a minraise in any position pre-flop ever correct? I would think no.

Re: The Conclusion of the hand

[ QUOTE ]
Just curious on a related note. Is a minraise in any position pre-flop ever correct? I would think no.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very rarely. Maybe if you're trying to mix up your play, prevent people reading your bet sizes. Or creating a donk image of yourself. But at small stakes where chances are most the villians at your table aren't paying attention to whether you raise 2xBB or 5xBB with AA it's a -EV play.