Re: Either Life Exists Elsewhere or The Universe is finite.
 

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adamstewart --

We are life. We exist. Therefore, the probability that life exists is greater than zero.


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I'm not sure that follows. Pick a number from 0 to 1 at random from a uniform distribution. Say the number is q. We might be like that q. q was picked. Does that mean the probabilty of q being picked is nonzero? Nope.

PairTheBoard

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Exactly. Also, the sequence of natural numbers is infinite, but contains no repetition.

Re: Either Life Exists Elsewhere or The Universe is finite.
 

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Exactly, it comes down to an argument of what's possible. It's entirely possible that a universe could exist and be filled with nothing but blank space. Or, there could be an infinite number of infinite universes, and we're the one where life only exists on one planet. Just because the universe is infinite doesn't mean everything that could exist will exist.

Therefore, the original argument is bankrupt.

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Wrong.


We exist. Therefore the probability that life exists is greater than zero.

No one has come up with a 'machine to destroy the universe.' (We know this because the universe still exists, otherwise we wouldn't exist). Therefore, it cannot be stated that the probability of a universe-destroying-machine is greater than zero.

My arguement still stands. Your's does not.


Adam

Re: Either Life Exists Elsewhere or The Universe is finite.
 

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adamstewart --

We are life. We exist. Therefore, the probability that life exists is greater than zero.


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I'm not sure that follows. Pick a number from 0 to 1 at random from a uniform distribution. Say the number is q. We might be like that q. q was picked. Does that mean the probabilty of q being picked is nonzero? Nope.

PairTheBoard

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Exactly. Also, the sequence of natural numbers is infinite, but contains no repetition.

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No.

The number 'q' was picked. Therefore, the probability that q can be picked is greater than zero.


(Perhaps "repetition" was a bad word. More specifically, in my original post, I was referreing to the fact that given an infinite number of 'trials', it is certain that a non-zero event will again ..... and again ....)



Adam

Re: Either Life Exists Elsewhere or The Universe is finite.
 

You clearly dont understand math. The probability of picking any number in the range of 0 to 1 is zero. If you are not even going to concede that point then there is no point in even having a discussion.

Moreover just because an even has non-zero probability before it occurs doesnt mean the probably doesnt alter ex-post.

Example you are dealt two black aces. Is the probability of someone else getting dealt two black aces also greater then 0?

Re: Either Life Exists Elsewhere or The Universe is finite.
 

But the deck is finite.

Re: Either Life Exists Elsewhere or The Universe is finite.
 

Adam,

perhaps this is a time dependant scenario...so each year that goes by, new life is created with probability p. perhaps p is sufficiently small that even in an infinite universe, we were the only things created in the finite amount of time the universe has existed

EDIT: by that model, in an infinite universe that has existed for an infinite amount of time, there would be infinitely many sources of life unless there were some other constraint. I'm assuming the universe has been around for only so long.

Re: Either Life Exists Elsewhere or The Universe is finite.
 

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But the deck is finite.

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Bingo

Re: Either Life Exists Elsewhere or The Universe is finite.
 

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Moreover just because an even has non-zero probability before it occurs doesnt mean the probably doesnt alter ex-post.


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True enough. But if the event has not yet occured (such as the the 'universe-destroying machine'), then the poster cannot prove that the probability of that event is greater than zero.


Adam

Re: Either Life Exists Elsewhere or The Universe is finite.
 

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You clearly dont understand math.

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Don't be such an ignorant generalist.



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The probability of picking any number in the range of 0 to 1 is zero. If you are not even going to concede that point then there is no point in even having a discussion.


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I think we may not understand one another's argument. Admittedly, I have no idea what you are refering to above. Please clarify your point.


Adam

Re: Either Life Exists Elsewhere or The Universe is finite.
 

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The number 'q' was picked. Therefore, the probability that q can be picked is greater than zero.

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I think the problem in your thinking here is that you're assuming that you can "pick" a real number between 0 and 1. How do you propose to do this? In finite time, your choices are either to pick a rational number and completely specify it, or to give an algorithm that will allow for generation of all the digits of your number. The latter case will allow you to get computable numbers. I can expand on this if you like, or you can take my word for it, but there are countably many computable numbers, but the continuum is uncountable. Thus the numbers that you can "pick" form a vanishingly small subset of the line [0,1]. The probability of picking a specific real number really is 0; this comes from a measure-theoretic view of probability.

In answer to your original question, many people think the universe is some kind of 3-manifold without boundary. Think like a torus, just with an extra dimension.