Two Plus Two Older Archives - settle a bet... 30/60 preflop

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Re: settle a bet... 30/60 preflop

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i've never played the 30, but i don't feel like it matters which road you take, as i doubt any is that much better/worse than the others.

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This does not make any sense.

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really? well what is your estimate of the EV of TT in that spot if hero

a) caps
b)calls
c) folds

and what is the size of the difference between the largest EV and smallest EV of teh choices?

Barron

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Barron, I agree with PokerBob. But what I'm more interested in is if you can answer to any degree of reliability your own questions? And if you are, more importantly, how do you go about that? I suspect you were simply pointing out to the poster that PokerBob "did" make sense, but I'm not sure.

Re: settle a bet... 30/60 preflop

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i've never played the 30, but i don't feel like it matters which road you take, as i doubt any is that much better/worse than the others.

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This does not make any sense.

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really? well what is your estimate of the EV of TT in that spot if hero

a) caps
b)calls
c) folds

and what is the size of the difference between the largest EV and smallest EV of teh choices?

Barron

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Barron, I agree with PokerBob. But what I'm more interested in is if you can answer to any degree of reliability your own questions? And if you are, more importantly, how do you go about that? I suspect you were simply pointing out to the poster that PokerBob "did" make sense, but I'm not sure.

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i was pointing out that what pokerbob said makes a good amount of sense.

depends on the players who raise. more precisely depends on their pf raise %...

Callin: calling allows you to see if original raiser caps and get off cheap on a bad flop. but it also may make you fold best hand if its a 953 flop and UTG leads (and is over agressive) and pf3bettor raises his 8s or something. calling also allows you better odds to hit a set if behind. Calling doesn't give you much manueverability with your position though.

Cappin: gives you the lead and puts more bets in when ahead vs. AK and AQs etc. you may see a 4 card flop if it comes AQ3. you'll win a bigger pot when you win. similarly, by callin you lose a smaller pot when ahead and you call. but you also win a smaller one when you draw out or are ahead.

id guess that the EV there ranges from +.2bbs to -.2 bbs depending on a) villians' pf raise % b) their go to river%s, c) how many bets they lose if a set comes w/ overpairs, and d) if they will give you a 4 card flop if you cap and it comes bad.

so those are a few thoughts. folding=0 obviously. putting in those bets and not hitting a set is bad as is hitting a set and losing. but when you do hit and win or only a few bets go in postflop and win then you get a huge pot. they offset eachother, sometimes they dont though....which is determined by those above factors

Barron

Re: settle a bet... 30/60 preflop

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raise and reraise, i fold TT without hesitation.

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its a good idea to fold a good % of the time. but sometimes their styles dictate a play.

Barron

Re: settle a bet... 30/60 preflop

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really? well what is your estimate of the EV of TT in that spot if hero

a) caps
b)calls
c) folds

and what is the size of the difference between the largest EV and smallest EV of teh choices?

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I think that the range of hands of the CO and UTG+1 after the CO 3-bets the UTG+1 raise puts TT in horrible shape. Thus I think folding has to be the highest EV by a substantial margin. I think that capping is better than cold calling 3 bets, but probably not by much; besides, who cold calls 3-bets anyway?

I agree however that capping is the best move if you have reason to believe (i.e. reads on thoseplayers' tendencies) that TT has very high equity; for example, if UTG+1 could have random cards and you know that the CO is trying to isolate.

Re: settle a bet... 30/60 preflop

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raise and reraise, i fold TT without hesitation.

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no one is suprised, you would fold QQ here.

to the OP, I voted capping for some reasons.

1) a cold cap is pretty intimidating. It usually only means AA-JJ and AK. therefore if the players start playing back at you'll be able to dump it correctly.
2) position

i wish someone would come in and do the math, it's pretty interesting.

Re: settle a bet... 30/60 preflop

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i wish someone would come in and do the math, it's pretty interesting.

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anyone know anyone getting a PhD in math? [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: settle a bet... 30/60 preflop

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i wish someone would come in and do the math, it's pretty interesting.

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anyone know anyone getting a PhD in math? [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

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Nope, that would be useful though.

Re: settle a bet... 30/60 preflop

you could just pokerstove it. I think in a game that aggressive, folding it should be the exception to the rule, especially 7 handed. my range UTG there is probably ATo+, KJo+, A9s+, KTs+, 77+, QJs, and 3-betting range AA-88, AJ+, KQ. against that range, he's slightly above fair share

Re: settle a bet... 30/60 preflop

the game was played 7 handed. first guy folded. now there is an UTG raise and CO 3-bet in a 6-max game and your standard play is fold? that's weak