Re: all in or stop and go?
 

I think its worth the risk of tying him to the pot to call PF, then c/r all in on the flop.

It maximizes chips and often the guys who cannot fold PF are the ones who fold when odds dictate they should call with overcards on moves like these.

Give a LAG a chance to bet.

I could be wrong, I often am.

Regards,
Woodguy

Re: all in or stop and go?
 

[ QUOTE ]
9 handed, CO+1 open raises i'm in bb w/ TT. Blinds at 100/200, I have 1520 before posting the 200 he has like 8,000. He raised w/ a KJ from CO+3 earlier and called a check raise all in w/ the KJ on an AJrag board of two clubs (he had no clubs). So I know I have no fold equity but is my hand too big here not to reraise pre-flop? Or should I go with a standard stop and go push which would be a $920 bet into a $1300 pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand what CO+1 and CO+3 means. Wouldn't CO+1 be the button and I don't know where CO+3 puts us? Is this supposed to be UTG?

Re: all in or stop and go?
 

There's no way on earth I am using the stop and go in this spot, considering the wide range he could have. Give me a lower pp like 66 or a hand like A9 before I think stop and go.

Re: all in or stop and go?
 

[ QUOTE ]
There's no way on earth I am using the stop and go in this spot, considering the wide range he could have. Give me a lower pp like 66 or a hand like A9 before I think stop and go.

[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed. A stop and go here gets too many correct folds out of him on the flop, and too many correct calls as well. A push preflop gets some correct calls by him (overs) but lots of bad ones too (Ax, smaller pair, etc.). I'm not as concerned with fold equity here as much as I am about doubling through.

Re: all in or stop and go?
 

If you are ahead of his range you shouldn't consider a stop n go.

Stop n go is useful when:
1) you have no FE BTF but may have some ATF and
2) you are not ahead of his range

small pairs are best.

Re: all in or stop and go?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think its worth the risk of tying him to the pot to call PF, then c/r all in on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

we're better off pushing all-in pre-flop if this is our plan. All we accomplish by CR all-in on the flop is creating a situation where one time out of three we're putting our money in with very little equity.

If we're ahead of his range and we're sure he's gonna call the PF all-in and our goal is to get all of our money to the center, then simply push before the flop. CR all-in would be a better line against an aggressive player who can find the fold button if he bets the flop with whiffed cards.

Against the lag in this hand, we should avoid FPS and just move-in. it at least assures us that we're getting our money in as a favorite.

Re: all in or stop and go?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think this is a perfect spot for a stop and go. You'll be acting first on the flop. You're ahead of his range. You have no folding equity. And there's a better chance that he has overcards then a smaller pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't the purpose of an SnG to increase fold equity? If we think we have none with villian, what's the point of going from none to tiny? I say push right away and don't give villian a chance to hit.

OP said that villian is capable of calling with second pair, ie we have even less FE on the flop than normal. He called with KJ on a AJx board that was two suited having no clubs. It sounds like an awful call, presumably against a shorty, but it also means villian won't be bluffed off his hand if he hits. This is virtually the same situation we're in. The purpose of an SnG is to try to get someone to fold a hamd they might have won with otherwise (ie the better hand), but villian has shown that he's not one to get pushed off a hand, especially against a shorty. So the SnG is simply unlikely to work here.

Incidently, villian could have just been raising to steal, pushing PF could just make villian say "ok take it" and we win a reasonable pot. Calling allows him to hit his A3 when he would have otherwise folded.

Re: all in or stop and go?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Just what I want to hear, two quality players arguing each side of the coin. I guess it comes down to is it more important to win a smaller pot a higher % of the time? Or get all my money in pre as a slight favorite, therefore winning a larger pot less than if I used a stop and go. Another question say I were to have done a stop and go, and the flop comes T52, should I just check here and let him put me AI? Or does that reveal too much about my hand after calling so much of my stack preflop?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm checking here every time. Your read makes him sound pretty agro. There's no way you're getting away from a set there (or really any set), might as well do your darndest to make him committ more chips.

Re: all in or stop and go?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Assuming he has over and you use the stop n go:
If he hits, he calls and you would have wanted a fold.
If he misses, he folds and you would have wanted a call.
(read on the villain suggests strongly we wont be able to get him to fold if he hits middle pair or something).

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree. If he has a KQ or something and misses the flop, we'll be a 3:1 favourite so we don't want to give him the chance to fold his hand without paying us the extra 920 chips. And if he has an A7 or something like that, we'll be 5:1 on the flop if he misses, so we especially don't want to give him the chance to fold.

Re: all in or stop and go?
 

[ QUOTE ]
And if he has an A7 or something like that, we'll be 5:1 on the flop if he misses, so we especially don't want to give him the chance to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm still very torn about this hand.

The way I look at this hand is, how can I get this guy to make a mistake?

If we push pf here, calling with A7 would not be a mistake (or any one over card hand). Calling with A high after missing the flop would be.

I'm not saying go for the stop and go, just something to think about.