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-   -   Difficult Post Flop Hand: ($33) (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=393932)

12-08-2005 03:07 AM

Re: Difficult Post Flop Hand: ($33)
 
I would re-raise on the flop to see where you stand. Given that you just called, I like betting on the turn... and the min-raise is suspicious. I think at this point it's a push or fold.. calling does nothing for you.

mlagoo 12-08-2005 03:23 AM

Re: Difficult Post Flop Hand: ($33)
 
hmm...

i think the flop is the cheapest street to gain information. i would raise him there.

if i decided to take a passive line, im checking through the turn, calling a river lead, and betting a river check (and calling a river CR).

12-08-2005 04:25 AM

Re: Difficult Post Flop Hand: ($33)
 
This hand is only difficult because you made if difficult, IMO. Villain's tiny bet on the flop is either someone who is trying to price in their draw, doesn't know what they're doing, or is trying to induce a raise. You showed strength preflop, an ace, jack and ten flopped.... Show more strength on the flop and raise it 300 or so. If I'm villain and I can't beat AK or two pair and my probe bet gets raised, I'm out of there. If he pushes over the top, I think you can fold against most opponents as he's going to show you KQ, 2pair or a set here pretty often. If he folds, the pot is already decent sized. If he calls and checks a blank turn, I don't hate checking behind to control the pot (lose less when behind), and calling a reasonable bet on the river, or betting a callable amount if checked to.

This hand is really read-dependent. If you think UTG is a horrible/straightforward player who could have A-rag here and won't fold, value-betting all streets becomes more right. If he is tricky, raise the flop and proceed with caution. The problem with just calling the flop is you don't know where you're at, and when you get checked to on the turn you almost have to put money in the pot with TPTK so you can win a decent amount with a pretty strong hand. However, after making your obligatory bet a checkraiase will make you want to vomit, as here....

I think your best line is to raise 250-350 on the flop and fold to a reraise, check behind if checked to on river, and call a reasonable bet on river/make a callable bet if checked to on river. This will win the most against KK, A9, AQ QJ or KJ and lower and lose the least against the huge amount of hands that are beating you here (AJ, AT, J10, KQ, 1010, JJ, etc.).

Taraz 12-08-2005 04:40 AM

Re: Difficult Post Flop Hand: ($33)
 
Of the people who advocate raising the flop, what do you do if he reraises all-in on the flop?

12-08-2005 04:50 AM

Re: Difficult Post Flop Hand: ($33)
 
I'd fold without reads.

TEBPilot 12-08-2005 02:57 PM

Re: Difficult Post Flop Hand: ($33)
 
I'd have to advocate a raise on the flop for information. I would bump it up to about 250. If he calls then you are going to have to slow down. Without any reads, I would fold to an all in reraise. There is no need to risk the tourney so early with top pair. If you fold, you still have chips to play with

adanthar 12-08-2005 04:21 PM

Re: Difficult Post Flop Hand: ($33)
 
Well, he doesn't have A6 here. A4, maybe, but not A6 unless he lucked into it.

I probably raise or bet or something more than these underbets you're throwing out because neither you or I have any idea where you are on any street, and on this board, that's a problem. As it stands, I can't really justify a fold anywhere, but that's because I can't put him on a hand.

Scuba Chuck 12-08-2005 05:01 PM

Re: Difficult Post Flop Hand: ($33)
 
After thinking about this hand overnight, it has just dawned on me what villain has been trying to do. He was trying to represent the ace. Another way of saying this, is that villain thinks I have a hand like KK/QQ here.

Anyway, for those who care, he had Ks Tc. I guess if I had taken the time to think about what I think he thought I had, it might have been a little easier to understand the line he took.

pineapple888 12-08-2005 05:56 PM

Re: Difficult Post Flop Hand: ($33)
 
Without reading the others...

You're behind to a ton of likely hands here, so I treat this as a drawing hand, which should make my action clear.

I'm calling the small flop bet.

I'm checking behind on the turn.

He still bets big on the river in this case, I let it go. I don't mind the occasional times I've folded the best hand or would have chopped. I call a smallish bet, though.

kevkev60614 12-08-2005 06:22 PM

Re: Difficult Post Flop Hand: ($33)
 
I raise the flop to about 350 and fold to a reraise. If called, I check behind the turn. Then I fold on the river to his push. Then I punch my screen and use bad words to describe his mom.


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