Re: 3 betting turn with TPTK and flush outs
 

Let me add one thing to my last post. Some people may flame this, but if you were to adopt a blanket rule that, heads-up, you would never fold to a single bet on the river with any kind of made hand when getting better than 8 to 1, I guarantee you you could do very well and not have to worry about such situations again. Folding made hands on the river getting more than 8 to 1 when you get to close the action is something none of us can do well, I'll speculate.

Re: 3 betting turn with TPTK and flush outs
 

OK, I'll buy that. Then check call instead.

Re: 3 betting turn with TPTK and flush outs
 

[ QUOTE ]
OK, I'll buy that. Then check call instead.

[/ QUOTE ]

well we're in position. you can't find a value bet there?

Re: 3 betting turn with TPTK and flush outs
 

I agree with you. I dont mind just calling a checkraise here (espcially in position)because he will surely lead into you on the river and if you catch a diamond you can raise the nuts and if not you get to showdown with the same three bets that you ended up putting in on the turn. You are prolly behind on the turn and by calling you get a chance to improve for a cheaper price and get to raise when you make strong hands.

Re: 3 betting turn with TPTK and flush outs
 

[ QUOTE ]
OK, I'll buy that. Then check call instead.

[/ QUOTE ]

I had position on my opponent. If I check the river the hand is over.

Thanks,
efficacy

Re: 3 betting turn with TPTK and flush outs
 

Oops, you're right, I got the position turned around. In any event I stand by my original intent if not the details(!)--he's got to see the showdown here. Either bet/call or check behind.

Re: 3 betting turn with TPTK and flush outs
 

[ QUOTE ]
Let me add one thing to my last post. Some people may flame this, but if you were to adopt a blanket rule that, heads-up, you would never fold to a single bet on the river with any kind of made hand when getting better than 8 to 1, I guarantee you you could do very well and not have to worry about such situations again. Folding made hands on the river getting more than 8 to 1 when you get to close the action is something none of us can do well, I'll speculate.

[/ QUOTE ]

No. You're either going to miss a ton of value bets, or you're going to pay off way too many raises. you need to do some hand reading and player reading.

Re: 3 betting turn with TPTK and flush outs
 

I'm not suggesting that by following this rule you have to forego speculative value bets. I'm just saying I'll make a crying call if I get raised at better than 8 to 1 nearly all the time with a made hand. I know this sounds controversial, and I don't pretend to be an expert, but it's something I believe pretty strongly. People do wacky things 11% of the time or better.

Re: 3 betting turn with TPTK and flush outs
 

if you put five BB's in on the turn and river with TPTK, you are almost never good 1/9 times. maybe we should just agree to disagree, but if you're paying off river check raises like in this hand against unknowns you are going to get outplayed a LOT.

Re: 3 betting turn with TPTK and flush outs
 

I'm glad you're trying to convince me, because who knows but I may be way off base. I think that people underestimate how seldom 1/9 really seems to be in practice. If you call down 7 times in a row and get shown a winner, we psycologically get very defensive and stop doing that action. In practice someone shows up with something wacky at least 10% of the time if not a little more, even though it doesn't seem like it. Even if that's all it is, and you just break even, it's better to be a break even caller on the river than a break even folder on the river.