Re: 20-40 commerce........when the [censored] hits the fan
 

dare i say it: standard?

[img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]nh.

results
 

so i made the raise, MP1 called without much hesitation and MP2 and villian both folded pretty quickly.

MP1 had AJ and i didn't improve.
how on earth he checked the flop, then smooth called the turn then overcalled a raise and a reraise is beyond me but he took it down.

i think most players (at least myself) would have folded the AJ in that spot after playing the hand in such a manner.

turns out MP1 is the type of player that is more then willing to back his stack with top pair, as he demonstrated for the rest of the night.

when i made the play i thought i was only going to be dealing with the button, because MP1 loves to chase draws, which is what i put him on, and since MP2 was so predicatably straightfoward i figured him for a draw too, and like i said earlier i was 99% sure the button couldn't call.

Re: 20-40 commerce........when the [censored] hits the fan
 

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how strong of a hand can he have if he checked the flop on the button?

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You've never seen villians slowplay monster hands on the button?

Garland

Re: 20-40 commerce........when the [censored] hits the fan
 

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You've never seen villians slowplay monster hands on the button?

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what monster hand are you slowplaying on the button, with four players in front of you and a flop of A-9-10 two hearts?

you checking a set on this flop?
what exactly is your plan if a King, Queen, 8, 6 or heart shows up?

i've seen plenty of people slowplay hands on the button, but this is one situation where you won't ever see it.

Re: 20-40 commerce........when the [censored] hits the fan
 

I really don't understand why you think you must bet out on a draw heavy board on the flop. You don't have to do anything if you are a good player and can get away from a big hand. There is nothing wrong with checking a draw heavy board with a set. This can add deception. I am not saying you should always check, but its not bad if you do. This is especially true with deep stacks.

Of course with idiots backing there stack with top pair, it would be a good idea to bet here.

Re: 20-40 commerce........when the [censored] hits the fan
 

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I really don't understand why you think you must bet out on a draw heavy board on the flop. You don't have to do anything if you are a good player and can get away from a big hand. There is nothing wrong with checking a draw heavy board with a set. This can add deception. I am not saying you should always check, but its not bad if you do. This is especially true with deep stacks.

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I don't really see the advantage in what you're talking about.....why would you check a great hand on the button and give a free card to four players AND eliminate an entire round of betting in which to get money in the pot - particularly when a hand like a set is easily beatable on that board.....what type of second-best hand are you gonna let someone catch AND then be able to get lots of money in the pot in two betting rounds?.....the "deception" gained is not nearly worth what you lose....I'd rather get deception by betting more bad hands on the button than checking good ones....now, change a few things like the number of players in the hand, the particular players (maybe against someone who knows you well), the stack sizes, the texture of the flop - then okay, maybe a check could be a fine play.....but in this particular situation, I agree with RBK......

Re: 20-40 commerce........when the [censored] hits the fan
 

The point I am trying to make is that you should almost never always do something...especially with deep stacks. Many people feel the need to always bet a set on a draw heavy board. I actually did say I would probably bet this flop, but you cut that out.

Actually, there are plenty of hands that can make a second best hand here and will pay you off. Remembering that the opponents are terrible, it will always be possible to win a large pot when they have a mediocre hand.

Re: results
 

AJ? Wow. Strangely played. Who'd have thunk it?

Re: 20-40 commerce........when the [censored] hits the fan
 

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The point I am trying to make is that you should almost never always do something...especially with deep stacks. Many people feel the need to always bet a set on a draw heavy board. I actually did say I would probably bet this flop, but you cut that out.

Actually, there are plenty of hands that can make a second best hand here and will pay you off. Remembering that the opponents are terrible, it will always be possible to win a large pot when they have a mediocre hand.

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first of all not all the opponents are terrible.
second of all, while it is important to vary your play, there are certain situations where there really is only one option.
and not betting a big hand on that flop in that situation with those stacks would be pretty bad poker. period.

and as for your assertion that there are plenty of second best hands that will pay you off, i'd have to say they are vastly outnumbered by the quantity of hands that will beat you given a free card.

Re: 20-40 commerce........when the [censored] hits the fan
 

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i check the flop looking to checkraise, that doesn't work out so know i lead on the turn...get two callers and a raise, then i reraise...i'm the only one in the hand that could reasonable have checked the flop and now it must look like a have monster...no?

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You say that, yet if that is what you portray and they still call you then you should feel beat, no? If they know you had planned a checkraise by leading big on the turn and they still call you, you should fear mp1 at least.