Re: Interesting deep stack live hand ...........(i think)
 

Glad to hear that our thoughts on this hand are similiar as I frequently learn a lot from your views on the game...the short stack bluffer does add a nice twist to this, but I still think more often than not this straight forward player has you. Why would he potentially risk $1000s for a $200 pot if you aren't kidding and aren't just trying to isolate, you know? Doesn't seem right. I suppose though, if you call his turn, and the river goes check, check, then you are right, he was just looking you up, and your hand is good. I'm interested in what he really had...

Re: Interesting deep stack live hand ...........(i think)
 

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I don't think he checks this flop with AK or AA.

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Why not? If there was ever a flop to check AA or AK on, K22 would be it.

Re: Interesting deep stack live hand ...........(i think)
 

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however i have seen a number of failed semi-bluffs on his part in the last couple of sessions, mostly because he refuses to fire more then one barrel at the pot.


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There's one reason to call the turn and make a decision after checking the river.

Another important question is whether or not you can double through him if he has AK or AA.

Re: results and thoughts
 

ok.
so i called the turn figuring i could make my decison on the river based on his action.

river came a jack, i checked he thought about it for a minute then finally checked behind.

i showed my boat, MHWG.
he claimed he had AK, and i believe him.

ok so here is my question, obviously based on hindsight.

should i have led out for ~600 on the river and then fold to a reraise? as sort of a blocking/value bet?

i definately think he has to call w/ AK on the river but there is pretty much no way he is coming over the top of me with AK so if he raises me on the river i can fold.

i definately think reraising the turn was the worst possible option so i'm glad no one advocated that line...however i think there may be a case for leading the river.

i can honestly say that i was mentally prepared to fold my hand had he pushed the river.

Re: Interesting deep stack live hand ...........(i think)
 

My guess would be that he held KQ or possibly AK if he is the tight player you wrote about in the original post. I agree with yours and AZK thinking but I really believe that KK is out of the question with the knowledge of the habitual bluffer. Hope it worked out for you and I'm dying to read results.

Re: results and thoughts
 

I like the idea of betting the river a lot.

Re: results and thoughts
 

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so if he raises me on the river i can fold.

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Then I think you should bet as much as you are willing to check-call on the river.

Re: results and thoughts
 

Perfectly stated.

Re: results and thoughts
 

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I like the idea of betting the river a lot.

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yeah i kind of played it like a pussy.
it is amazing though how much more complex the game becomes when you get deep.
however i think that i have to lead the river here...and normally i play it a little more aggressively...but for some reason i just got a really strong feeling that he had KK.

it just seemed so odd to play any other hand that way.
however in retrospect i guess its not that bad of a line to take with AK or AA once the turn gets there as he certainly slowed me down (although i hate his flop check).

i think the reason i won the minimum here is because of his flop check...if it was heads up i could understand it but he's checking behind three callers... why give us a free shot at the set unless he has KK? he has to put at least one of us on a pocket pair, and even though we're most likely drawing to two outs why give us infinate odds to get there?
and then he has to play guessing games on the turn if someone comes out firing...it just seems like a really odd way to play AA or AK in that situation.

but i think this is just another example of how much easier it is to mull over all of these factors in retrospect...i mean as soon as the hand was over i'm thinking to myself there is no way he makes such a small raise in position after three limpers with AA or AK, since he knows no one is folding.

Re: results and thoughts
 

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Then I think you should bet as much as you are willing to check-call on the river.

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yeah you are 100% correct.
i think my problem was that i had such a strong gut feeling that i was beat i couldn't pull the trigger on the river.
i mean i was practically getting ready to muck my hand on the river before he even acted.

and anyone that knows me knows that i am anything but weak tight.
i just made the wrong read.