Re: Stop berating the fish - HARD PROOF of why it is bad to do so
 

Only an idiot wouldn't realize that it's -EV.

But we still can't do anything about it. The poker sites don't give a [censored] about table coaching. I complain every week it seems, and it doesn't do any good. The sites say that they won't ban "coffeehousing".

When a fish feels good because he wasn't berated, you know you have a problem. They shouldn't be berated at all and only sunglass WPT wearing fuckers with tiny penises table coach.

Re: Stop berating the fish - HARD PROOF of why it is bad to do so
 

This is a fallacy - like if you say you know the right action, and do something else, well, you couldn't 'know' it in the first place.

Some players are difficult and dangerous but they will tilt, or begin gunning for you, if you say the right things. It's far too simplistic to say "You won't gain an advantage." Sometimes I think I do. Especially at heads up or short handed NL, where I spend most of my poker time.

Re: Stop berating the fish - HARD PROOF of why it is bad to do so
 

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I'm also curious to hear how he played pretty well postflop in that first hand that developed into a "big pot." And of course, in how he played postflop in that second hand that developed into a "huge pot."

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Coldcalling with QTs after someone has raised first in with AK is a mistake. Fundamental Thereom of Poker, baby.

Postflop play was fine because there were other coldcallers behind him, so he was getting approximate proper odds to chase. No way he knew this, though, since he is a fishy wishy. He just knew "Oh, I have a straight draw."

Re: Stop berating the fish - HARD PROOF of why it is bad to do so
 

Drew, Do you ever notice how often when someone disagrees with an obviously true statement, they change the conditions to try and justify their dissent?

I thought it was clear that you were talking about limit poker and most likely a full ring game. (multi-way, capped pot doesn't usually describe heads up or No Limit play).

Then they want to go from berating a fish to trying to tilt a LAG that is attempting to run over the table.

Everybody slips from time to time and lets their frustration show but if you are playing a full ring game and you berate another player, you are an IDIOT. Only two things will happen, the fish will tighten up and play better or they will leave the table and both outcomes are -EV.

Re: Stop berating the fish - HARD PROOF of why it is bad to do so
 

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This is a fallacy - like if you say you know the right action, and do something else, well, you couldn't 'know' it in the first place.

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Knowing the correct action and doing something else without a very good reason is the definition of tilt.

I'm not saying that good players don't tilt, but I am saying that if you think they are good, you are picking the wrong target.

Play against the players that are weaker than you unless you have a good reason why you can't do that. (like being in a tournament)

If you keep butting heads with players better than you, you will lose a lot of buy ins during your education.

I'm also a short handed / HU player, and I understand what you're saying. Look at it like this:

How many times do you say to yourself, "Oh, the 3 seat thinks I'm on tilt now because of the last 2 beats in a row. He's more likely than usual to call a big bet from me."

Think about it.

Re: Stop berating the fish - HARD PROOF of why it is bad to do so
 

I'm not butting heads with better players. I'm playing against tricky LAGs who are also willing to stack off with one pair hands - who love making big moves. Sometimes they play well, sometimes they go on crazy tilt and donate their buy-in to me. Since I do not go on crazy tilt (my tilting is more subtle, I tend to be able to prevent myself from stacking off on a tilt-bluff), I win money from them.

Your argument makes it sound like table talk has never once been effective. Just shutting up and saying 'nh' once in a while with the same group of players is no fun - I'm looking for every edge. Maybe it has no effect, and maybe those tilting players would throw away their stacks to me anyway. But I like to think it does have an effect.

And, it's fun. Can't this game have any fun in it?

Re: Stop berating the fish - HARD PROOF of why it is bad to do so
 

This one situation is not hard proof. It proves that this one player left because he does not like trash talk.

Loose passives are MUCH less profitable than loose aggressives. Loose aggressives play that way because they think they're good enough to bully you around. When you insult a loose aggressive, he plays more aggressively. And if he tilts, thats just a beautiful thing.

A loose passive player will lose his buyin over hours and hours worth of table time. A tilted LAG will dump his stack much faster than that.

I've got a LOT of berating experience. I know the effects. I'd stop if it was losing me money. And I havent stopped.

Re: Stop berating the fish - HARD PROOF of why it is bad to do so
 

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I like berating the good players. It puts them on tilt.

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this is my approach. but i also pretend i dont know who the good players are, so i get to berate everyone.

Re: Stop berating the fish - HARD PROOF of why it is bad to do so
 

[img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: Stop berating the fish - HARD PROOF of why it is bad to do so
 

[ QUOTE ]
Drew, Do you ever notice how often when someone disagrees with an obviously true statement, they change the conditions to try and justify their dissent?

I thought it was clear that you were talking about limit poker and most likely a full ring game. (multi-way, capped pot doesn't usually describe heads up or No Limit play).

Then they want to go from berating a fish to trying to tilt a LAG that is attempting to run over the table.



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Yeah, I noticed. This thread definitely took a different direction that I expected.

This was a full limit ring game, not headsup. These were calling stations, not maniacs. Berating them is a -EV move, period.

Remember the words of wisdom of Amarillo Slim: "You can shear a sheep many times, but skin him only once." Keep berating the fish, and eventually no one will want to play with you. The well may be deep, but it ain't bottomless.

Ah well. We all do what we have to do to win, I guess [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]