Re: Punishing Autopilot TAGs
 

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this is exactly the type of thread lurkers lurk for - multitabling TAGs telling everyone how to exploit multitabling TAGs.

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Oh, this thread should be deleted!

Re: Punishing Autopilot TAGs
 

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Take it a step further:

Hero opens from MP2 with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. An uncreative, ABC-type TAG multitabler (800 hand sample) 3-bets from the CO. Folded around to Hero who calls.

Flop: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

There are 7.33 SBs in the pot. What's our course of action?

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I'm an uncreative, ABC-type TAG multitabler.

My lines against a seemingly well playing TAG:
Hands I'll bet/call: AK-AQ/AA (27 combos)
Hands I'll bet/fold: JJ-99 (12 combos)
Hands I'll check (planning to go to a sd no matter what): KK-QQ (12 combos)

It doesn't take a rocketscientist to figure out you'll make an immediate profit by check/raising me everytime by just looking at these combos. I guess I'm counting on TAGs not beeing tricky enough to check/raise me often with air. But don't try this against me Harv, I know your nick [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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Would ABC TAGs be going to showdown with KK-QQ with an overcard Ace on the board? I think you might be underestimating the times they'd fold the underpair to the overcard Ace.

Re: Punishing Autopilot TAGs
 

I think this is more exploitable at a full-ring table than shorthanded. I think shorthanded even the TAG's are spewing multiple bets with air because pure aggression wins a ton of pots. They know that if you let them they can just run you over all day.

At full-ring it's a different story...there is plenty of long-term value to just folding and getting on to the next hand where you can value-bet the fish with your monster. So I've used this move (and suspected I've had it used against me as well) successfully in full-ring. I think it really does deserve more in-depth study since it is a reasonably high-cost gamble if it fails. Getting it dialed-in can certainly add to the BB/100.

Next if I can just figure out why my UI AK is NEVER good at S/D...unless its checked through on the end and I split with another AK who WOULD have folded to my bet.

Re: Punishing Autopilot TAGs
 

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Would ABC TAGs be going to showdown with KK-QQ with an overcard Ace on the board? I think you might be underestimating the times they'd fold the underpair to the overcard Ace.

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I was just saying that I am a pretty ABC playing TAG when multitabling and that those are my lines...

Re: Punishing Autopilot TAGs
 

Hyperd,

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But how will the EV calculations change if you call and C/R the turn as a bluff?

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I didn't do that calculation, but I would think it would be less profitable in most situations simply because the bet size is doubled (meaning doubled the amount of bets you are losing when it doesn't work) and people generally don't like folding on the river. I could be wrong though.

Car and Bigbrother,

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So, I guess my question is, what limits are you talking about here?

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I actually play mainly shorthanded now and situations like this come up more frequently simply because there are more heads-up pots. On the other hand, TAGs are also more likely to call down with ace high in shorthanded games as well. In either case, I like to try to find TAGs who are clearly playing multiple tables or who fold too much and it should be profitable against them at any limit. In general, I would assume it is harder to pull off as you move up.

Miles,

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this is exactly the type of thread lurkers lurk for - multitabling TAGs telling everyone how to exploit multitabling TAGs.

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I agree. However, it is pretty damn hard to tell if somebody is doing this against you unless they've done it multiple times. Furthermore, it's easy to take the idea too far. If somebody starts calling down all my checkraises, I can simply adjust and just start checkraising all my good hands and get more value out of them than usual.

Re: Punishing Autopilot TAGs
 

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this is exactly the type of thread lurkers lurk for - multitabling TAGs telling everyone how to exploit multitabling TAGs.

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That's why I love this forum and all you guys! In fact, you are taking all my money, but you give me good advice to make me at least dream of winnning it back sometimes [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Punishing Autopilot TAGs
 

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It doesn't take a rocketscientist to figure out you'll make an immediate profit by check/raising me everytime by just looking at these combos. I guess I'm counting on TAGs not beeing tricky enough to check/raise me often with air. But don't try this against me Harv, I know your nick [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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I'll check/raise you with the ace, too. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Point being, it's all about knowing your opponent. You'll build up a big sample vs. the multi-tabling TAGs pretty quickly, since they're in so many games, and once you do you can start trying creative moves like this. Of course, eventually you'll end up in the kind of situations where everything that happens on the flop is pure posturing, and the moves get moved to the expensive streets, and...that's why I love this game. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Punishing Autopilot TAGs
 

If i have KK on an A high flop and you check raise me, expect a raise on the turn.

Re: Punishing Autopilot TAGs
 

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this is exactly the type of thread LAGs lurk for - multitabling TAGs telling everyone how to exploit multitabling TAGs.

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FYP, and I continue to thank all who post in Micro/Small!

-ZEN

Re: Punishing Autopilot TAGs
 

good post jake