Re: Crushing live 2/4 tables
 

Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] is your friend

Re: Crushing live 2/4 tables
 

If you have the bankroll I would play 4-8 instead of 2-4. The players are just as terrible, and you can make a lot more money. I don't even know what "crushing" a live 2-4 game is, $5 an hour?, $7? I mean with that much money coming out of the pot every hand there is only so much you can win.
It takes along time to really know how well you are playing in live games. I would play at least 500+ hours at the 4-8 level, and then if you are crushing that game move up.

Re: Crushing live 2/4 tables
 

Have you checked out 2+2's book Small Stakes Hold'Em? It focuses on the sort of no-fold'em games you may be having trouble beating. I usually play 1-2NL, but I am studying SSHE for those times when those tables are the only ones open and I want to play while I wait for NL. The mindset is different from what you would need at 10/20. If your bankroll is more suited to 2/4, invest a bit of it in SSHE and see if this makes a difference.

Re: Crushing live 2/4 tables
 

Definitely true, but, as other posters have mentioned, watch the rake! While 2/4 is good practice, moving up just one or two limits to 3/6 or 4/8 makes it a lot easier to stay ahead of the mountainous rake, particularly (so I hear) in the midwestern casinos.

For more totally helpful hints about 2/4 check out this informative article by a poker genius on ESPN.com

NITPATROL: NITPATROL

Re: Crushing live 2/4 tables
 

Here is one theory:

In 2/4, you probably love calling with A-4 offsuit UTG. 'cause its only $2.

In 10/20, you throw it away like you should.

2/4 seems like pennies to you after you play in $100+ pots at the 10/20 table, therefor your 2/4 starting hands probably deteriorate. Play the games correctly and you should win both.

Re: Crushing live 2/4 tables
 

[ QUOTE ]
The mindset is different from what you would need at 10/20. If your bankroll is more suited to 2/4, invest a bit of it in SSHE and see if this makes a difference.

[/ QUOTE ]

SSH will help you immeasurably when it comes to 10/20 as well. It's not a strategy book about no-fold'em Hold'em games. It's a strategy book about Hold'em that focuses on the play more common at small stakes. The strategies in SSH translate across every level I have played, from 2-4 to 15-30, and I believe the fundamental ideas in the book are essential for any level of the game.

Re: Crushing live 2/4 tables
 

You are probably paying a much higher percentage of your pots in rake in a live 2/4 game than in a live 10/20 (I include tips and BBJP drop in "rake"). This can make the game tough to beat even if it is extremely fishy.

Re: Crushing live 2/4 tables
 

[ QUOTE ]

Here is one theory:

In 2/4, you probably love calling with A-4 offsuit UTG. 'cause its only $2.

In 10/20, you throw it away like you should.

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The other theory is that he's played about 20-30 hours of 10/20 and perhaps another 20-30 hours of 2/4 and doesn't realize that his sample-size is virtually meaningless.


At 30-35 hands an hour this is still in the 1k total hands range at each level which is EXTREMELY small.


Most people (especially many live players) don't realize how long the 'long-run' really is and think that after playing 5 hours they can get an idea for what their win-rate is.



Many of those who complain that they just "can't win at such-and-such level" probably are frustrated after 10 hours of losing.
Many of those who think they are "easily beating the games at such-and-such level" came to this assumption after 20 hours of decent cards.

Re: Crushing live 2/4 tables
 

Don't play 2/4 live. Between the tipping and the rake, it is not possible to make money in the long run. 2/4 is a total waste of time unless you are poor or just goofing around. The difference in skill between the avarage 2/4 player and 6/12 players is not nearly as great as some would have you believe. Read some 2+2 books and play 3/6 until you get the hang of it rhen move up as soon as you can.

Re: Crushing live 2/4 tables
 

[ QUOTE ]
Don't play 2/4 live. Between the tipping and the rake, it is not possible to make money in the long run. 2/4 is a total waste of time unless you are poor or just goofing around. The difference in skill between the avarage 2/4 player and 6/12 players is not nearly as great as some would have you believe. Read some 2+2 books and play 3/6 until you get the hang of it rhen move up as soon as you can.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think this is true. Maybe to someone who has never played 2/4 live it may sound true, but the players are so awful that the rake isn't as bad as you may think. For example, with 3-4 staying into the river with nothing, the rake at most is ONE BIG BET, but awful players love to play loose-passive and that one big bet is just one of those guys calling with crap. I really don't think that 2/4 is "unbeatable".