Re: think about this...
 

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ok, I think I'm still missing some stuff, but I tried to be as thorough as possible. I demand a lot of partial credit for showing formulas


http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/6564/plane4vg.jpg

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wow where is the 10 star option?

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baaaahahahahahhaha

Re: think about this...
 

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Is this really any different than asking if a plane can take off on a sheet of ice (or something frictionless)?

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Only in the sense that it is far more confusing for those who cannot separate wheel velocity from plane velocity in their minds! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: think about this...
 

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Is this really any different than asking if a plane can take off on a sheet of ice (or something frictionless)?

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Only in the sense that it is far more confusing for those who cannot separate wheel velocity from plane velocity in their minds! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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This ought to blow someone's mind: The wheels could be spinning backward and it wouldn't matter!

Re: think about this...
 

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Is this really any different than asking if a plane can take off on a sheet of ice (or something frictionless)?

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Only in the sense that it is far more confusing for those who cannot separate wheel velocity from plane velocity in their minds! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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This ought to blow someone's mind: The wheels could be spinning backward and it wouldn't matter!

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yeah it def. blew my mind. now give the answer plz? and the answer to daryns skateboard thing too. me and my friend have a bet on both.

Re: think about this...
 

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yeah it def. blew my mind. now give the answer plz? and the answer to daryns skateboard thing too. me and my friend have a bet on both.

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The plane can take off - this has already been established.

For Darryn's - as pictured, the skateboard would go backwards. If it were a perfect sail instead of that board, it would stand still.

Re: think about this...
 

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yeah it def. blew my mind. now give the answer plz? and the answer to daryns skateboard thing too. me and my friend have a bet on both.

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The plane can take off - this has already been established.



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I thought we determined it was a physically impossible scenario (contradicting assumptions)

Re: think about this...
 

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yeah it def. blew my mind. now give the answer plz? and the answer to daryns skateboard thing too. me and my friend have a bet on both.

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The plane can take off - this has already been established.

For Darryn's - as pictured, the skateboard would go backwards. If it were a perfect sail instead of that board, it would stand still.

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when was it established?

Re: think about this...
 

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yeah it def. blew my mind. now give the answer plz? and the answer to daryns skateboard thing too. me and my friend have a bet on both.

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The plane can take off - this has already been established.



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I thought we determined it was a physically impossible scenario (contradicting assumptions)

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Huh? Noone thinks you can actually build such a contraption, but theoretically it could take off.

What contradicting assumptions are you speaking of?

Re: think about this...
 

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when was it established?

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Patrick's original response was the cleanest answer:

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The plane can take off. The wheels and runway will accelerate like a mofo as it does.

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Re: think about this...
 

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Is this really any different than asking if a plane can take off on a sheet of ice (or something frictionless)? If I'm standing on roller skates on a treadmill (which I do often) and somebody pushes me forward I'm still going to move forward, just as the plane will still move forward because the props are propelling it forward --- the wheels seem irrelevant.

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Yeah except that if the plane is moving forward then the wheels can't be going the same speed as the conveyor so the original conditions are not met.

I fullyadmit I'm wrong about this, but I don't understand why. How long do we have to wait until one of the people who "gets it" tries to offer a clear explanation instead of a "You are wrong - do you see why?"
In each of the analogies mentioned for why the plane can take off, I fail to see how the original conditions of the wheels and conveyor moving at the same speed are met. Even though intuitively I believe the wheels should be irrelevant to the problem.