Re: Pascal\'s Wager...
 

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But for us
"There are pleasures in the right hand of God forever".

"We rejoice with joy unspeakable".

"No more tears, no more suffering."

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Had you been born in Iran, you would have one set of beliefs. If India, another. If China, yet another. What makes you think that your particular set of religious beliefs is true to the exclusion of all the others?

Or to put it another way, how should I choose a religion? (Supposing that I suddenly decided that were a good idea.)

GG

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Also, what if you were born in a different time? Say 3000 years ago? Then what?

Christians/Catholics say "believe Jesus is the son of god, or you're going to hell." Well, what about all the people who existed before Jesus walked the planet? Certainly, they did not all go to hell?

Why should I be held to a higher standard than they?

Re: Pascal\'s Wager...
 

If you hear the Gospel preached, you have an opportunity to believe. It is to the Gospel hearer that the question of unbelief is addressed, to the one who hears and rejects.

For those who have not heard, God is just. I don't know the specific answer, though there are some in the Bible who never heard of Jesus but were clearly saved, most especially those in Israel during Old Testament times. Job also was non-Jewish. God can save anyone at any time, and what He does is always well done.

The Bible cautions about being curious about the fate of others. That is, we are not to ask who is saved and who isn't. What it says is "Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your heart".

Re: Pascal\'s Wager...
 

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You can choose to believe in God.

"Does God exist?": Is a philisophical question with logical arguments on both sides.

If you want to believe in God then:

1) First accept the premis that God COULD exist.
2) Instead of taking the side that God doesn't exist, defend the stance that he does.
3) Gather as many arguments as you can to support your newfound belief, with the intention of justifying that God does exist.

That's it! No need to go to church, pray or read the Bible. (Maybe read Mathew, Mark, Luke and Jon, research the history of the books)

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1) - I do accept the fact that God COULD exist.

2) and 3) I do not believe that one can PROVE that GOD exists. I also do not believe one can PROVE that GOD doesn't exist.

Re: Pascal\'s Wager...
 

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Had you been born in Iran, you would have one set of beliefs. If India, another. If China, yet another. What makes you think that your particular set of religious beliefs is true to the exclusion of all the others? Or to put it another way, how should I choose a religion? (Supposing that I suddenly decided that were a good idea.)

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It is obvious from the posts in this thread that most of the writers are most familiar with Christianity. Most of them seem to base their belief or disbelief in god from the perspective of Christian mythology.

For someone who wanted to better understand the nature of god, I would suggest a wise thing to do would be to learn something about as many different religous myths as they could. While the nature of god and man's relationship to this universal power is beyond anyones complete comprehension and far beyond the capacity of words to describe, a person doing that would likely learn more about it, come closer to experiencing what god is, and they would certainly gain a better understanding of what religions are.

Re: Pascal\'s Wager...
 

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The Bible cautions about being curious about the fate of others. That is, we are not to ask who is saved and who isn't.

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Why?

Re: Pascal\'s Wager...
 

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Hope, meaning, and purpose are what you make of them. You choose to make them into the intangible and unseen.

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"For why does one hope for what he sees?"

"Looking not at the things which are seen, but the things which are unseen"

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If anything, my perspective on existence leaves much more room for that which is unseen and not understood than the one to which you ascribe. The unseen and is not accessible to the dogmatic and obedient.

Re: Pascal\'s Wager...
 

For all of you math people. I recommend the book "Beyond the Cosmos".

It is written by a brillant mathmatican who explains through math the possiblity of God. He explains alot of "ideas" and concepts that he came up with that help him to understand how the possiblity of one God doing all the things he is claimed might be possible. Basically he describes the idea the while we live in 4 diminsions (you know 3d plus time. God could actually exist in up to 12 diminsions. This would enable Him to do things like hear every person's prayers in the whole world instantly at the same point in time because he exists on multiple time diminsions.

Anyways he explains things alot better. Plus he was agnostic for most of his life and then came to Christianity.

Re: Pascal\'s Wager...
 

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Makes me feel paradoxically warm and cozy.

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The warmth and coziness of rebellion. There is a certain pleasure in the joy of forbidden fruit, but it is temporal and the consequence is not pretty.

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Scare tactics like these always come off sounding so comical. I shall smote thee...

Re: Pascal\'s Wager...
 

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For all of you math people. I recommend the book "Beyond the Cosmos".

It is written by a brillant mathmatican who explains through math the possiblity of God. He explains alot of "ideas" and concepts that he came up with that help him to understand how the possiblity of one God doing all the things he is claimed might be possible. Basically he describes the idea the while we live in 4 diminsions (you know 3d plus time. God could actually exist in up to 12 diminsions. This would enable Him to do things like hear every person's prayers in the whole world instantly at the same point in time because he exists on multiple time diminsions.

Anyways he explains things alot better. Plus he was agnostic for most of his life and then came to Christianity.

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This book may have meant something to you, and that's great if it did, but I'd just as soon read a book scientifically postulating the existence of Santa Claus as that of god.

Also, I have less respect for a reborn or new found christian than for one who has been part of the flock their whole life. To be brainwashed into it is one thing, but to willingly choose as an adult is quite another.

Re: Pascal\'s Wager...
 

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The Bible cautions about being curious about the fate of others. That is, we are not to ask who is saved and who isn't.

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Why?

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That, my friend, is a dangerous question.