Two Plus Two Older Archives - I now fold AK a lot pf.

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- - I now fold AK a lot pf. (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=344461)

Re: I now fold AK a lot pf.

[ QUOTE ]
Personal example:

BB is 1500, on the sb with AKs. I'm in second place at the table with 68k. The big stack at the table has 75k chips, and minraises for the first time all night from UTG. MP1, who has been playing tighter than a nun's cooter all night, shoves his last 15k in.

UTG has been at my table all night. He's aggressive, and looser than I am, but not super loose. He rarely backs down from a confrontation. He is capable of raising a hand as weak as AJs from UTG, but has never showed down TOTAL trash. As I said, I've never seen him minraise before. I have little doubt that if I call he will overpush. If I overpush, he might fold, but I doubt it.

The upshot: I fold without hesitation.

[/ QUOTE ]

nh

Re: I now fold AK a lot pf.

Weird that i have been going over this same topic in my mind for about 3 days now. heres my dilemna. i havent hit a money finish in going on 10 days now and when i look back at my games i find the same trend over and over....for whatever the reason i get all my chips in with AK or even AA. Yes im 90-10 or whatever but the fact is i lose and im gone..I am not going all-in anymore PF with ANYTHING unless im quite sure i wont be called unless im in the money already....weak? crappy? guaranteed to never win? i dont care anymore. all i know is i would still be in the tourny if i didnt make the push or call.....maybe i dont have enough bankroll to survive the variance...all i know is i have to finish in the money a higher percentage of the time. in the last 3 nights at stars i have lost AA or AK to 2's, 3's and J5s..... i cant justify it in the shorter term anymore...im going to try this awhile and if i see that im elimnating any chance of ever winning another tourny then ill have to reconsider.....yes once the bad/loose/call with anything types are elminated ill go back to the normal routine but right now they are beating me a very high percentage of the time...as i type this i just got AA.Im raising 3xBB but if anyone goes all-in im folding.....3 card flush on the board. SS goes all-in for T450...1 caller, ill call...right here im beat by a flush, trips or 2 pr and there is a KQ on the board also so all are possible...SS mucks, caller has 1 pr q's and i win the pot...great but this is the exact scenario that has beat me out night after night....now 40 mins in im at T4000 and my biggest bet has been T450. yes this is just once but this is the result im looking/hoping for....i cant see how risking the whole tourny on the hand would be the best move....my objective is to stop gambling early and just play the cards no matter how far im ahead PF.....

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t1600 (8 handed) converter

MP1 (t18715)
MP2 (t19295)
CO (t23260)
Button (t52768)
SB (t87479)
BB (t49955)
UTG (t22595)
Hero (t7800)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to t7725, MP1 calls t7725, 5 folds.

Flop: (t15975) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)

Turn: (t15975) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: (t15975) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: t15975

Results in white below: 
Hero has Kd As (high card, ace).
MP1 has 5s Js (one pair, fives).
Outcome: MP1 wins t15975.

Re: I now fold AK a lot pf.

[ QUOTE ]
Weird that i have been going over this same topic in my mind for about 3 days now. heres my dilemna. i havent hit a money finish in going on 10 days now and when i look back at my games i find the same trend over and over....for whatever the reason i get all my chips in with AK or even AA. Yes im 90-10 or whatever but the fact is i lose and im gone..I am not going all-in anymore PF with ANYTHING unless im quite sure i wont be called unless im in the money already....weak? crappy? guaranteed to never win? i dont care anymore. all i know is i would still be in the tourny if i didnt make the push or call.....maybe i dont have enough bankroll to survive the variance...all i know is i have to finish in the money a higher percentage of the time. in the last 3 nights at stars i have lost AA or AK to 2's, 3's and J5s..... i cant justify it in the shorter term anymore...im going to try this awhile and if i see that im elimnating any chance of ever winning another tourny then ill have to reconsider.....yes once the bad/loose/call with anything types are elminated ill go back to the normal routine but right now they are beating me a very high percentage of the time...as i type this i just got AA.Im raising 3xBB but if anyone goes all-in im folding.....3 card flush on the board. SS goes all-in for T450...1 caller, ill call...right here im beat by a flush, trips or 2 pr and there is a KQ on the board also so all are possible...SS mucks, caller has 1 pr q's and i win the pot...great but this is the exact scenario that has beat me out night after night....now 40 mins in im at T4000 and my biggest bet has been T450. yes this is just once but this is the result im looking/hoping for....i cant see how risking the whole tourny on the hand would be the best move....my objective is to stop gambling early and just play the cards no matter how far im ahead PF.....

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t1600 (8 handed) converter

MP1 (t18715)
MP2 (t19295)
CO (t23260)
Button (t52768)
SB (t87479)
BB (t49955)
UTG (t22595)
Hero (t7800)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K, A.
1 fold, Hero raises to t7725, MP1 calls t7725, 5 folds.

Flop: (t15975) 5, 8, T (2 players)

Turn: (t15975) 6 (2 players)

River: (t15975) 2 (2 players)

Final Pot: t15975

Results in white below:
Hero has Kd As (high card, ace).
MP1 has 5s Js (one pair, fives).
Outcome: MP1 wins t15975.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is hands down, the worst post I have ever read on 2+2.

It's not even close.

Re: I now fold AK a lot pf.

[ QUOTE ]
This is hands down, the worst post I have ever read on 2+2.

It's not even close.

[/ QUOTE ]

considering im probably the worst player on 2+2 id say thats fair. ill go now and improve my game by reading all your other very insightful posts. thxx

Re: I now fold AK a lot pf.

Hmmm... Now I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic... I'm leaning towards yes.

Re: I now fold AK a lot pf.

[ QUOTE ]
I imagine after all the noise, reviving this thread might be a lost cause, but...

I'd still like to see examples of y'all can come up with of laying down AK correctly. (And I assume we're talking about pre-flop. When you whiff the flop it gets easier. If we want to talk about laying down TPTK because you smell a set, you're out of my league.)

Some examples:

-Hero has 20-30BB, so nowhere near desperate yet, and feels comfortable at the table. Solid player sitting UTG, with a similar stack raises 4BB, and Big Stack in UTG+1 re-pops to 12BB. Hero folds.

-Hero is at 25BB, and UTG with AKo. He raises 3BB. Solid player to his immediate left who has him covered re-raises to 8BB. Folded to Hero, who also folds.

What do you think of these examples, and do you have any others?

Sam

[/ QUOTE ]

I love AK, but I am not married to it. It is not hard for me to dump it under the right circumstances. For example, I came in for a raise of about 3 BB in a B&M rebuy tournament (rebuy period just ended) with AK in early position. The button puts in a very healthy raise and the SB moves all in. We all had similar stacks that were relatively deep and I had just a little bit more than both of them. I folded and the button called. The button had QQ and the SB had KK and an Ace came on the flop. I would have won a huge pot, but oh well. Several people were critical of the play when I told them I folded AK even though I essentially only had 3 outs against the kings. I slept just fine that night.

Re: I now fold AK a lot pf.

..... wow

*Folded to illegit in SB, with BCI in the BB*

*illegit pushes and is guaranteed to add 1 BB to his stack 100% of the time*

I never have to worry about "what if he wakes up with a monster" because the answer is "he'll fold it".

Re: I now fold AK a lot pf.

Another case in point:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t2000 (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

MP1 (t24125)
MP2 (t58482)
MP3 (t98413)
CO (t14735)
Button (t1827)
Hero (t74618)
BB (t80026)
UTG (t47857)
UTG+1 (t40567)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 raises to t4000, MP2 raises to t10000, 1 fold, CO raises to t14635, 3 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls t4635.

Flop: (t33870) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

Turn: (t33870) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: (t33870) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: t33870

Results in white below: 
MP2 has Qd Qh (one pair, queens).
CO has As Kd (high card, ace).
Outcome: MP2 wins t33870.

Re: I now fold AK a lot pf.

3 raises in front of you?! This one won't be very controversial...

Re: I now fold AK a lot pf.

[ QUOTE ]
I used to find it very hard to lay down AK. Not anymore. And rarely do I regret folding it when I do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since reading this I have experimented folding AKo and AKs in EP and find it is working really good. I never lose a single chip. Thanks 2+2.