Re: Pascal\'s Wager...
 

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Isn't is possible that our minds are incapable of understanding God? Can someone who has never seen understand sight? Science is very adapt at explaining things, can it explain how out of absolutely nothing the miracle of human life is created? They try, but as far as I am concerned they fall far short. The human mind is incapable of proving or disproving God. That is why it is called faith.

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You still are not really making any type of argument. So science cannot adequately explain how the "miracle" of life began. So what? Making the jump from "science cannot adequately explain" to "it must be some unseen power that we cannot comprehend" is quite simply absurd. If you can't see how ridiculous that is, you are beyond repair. My belief that the "miracle" of life was created by a two-headed cyborg who posts on these boards under David Sklansky is just as absurd. Religious people weave such a strange mental web.

Added: You beat me to the punch, David.

Re: Pascal\'s Wager...
 

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Science is very adapt at explaining things, can it explain how out of absolutely nothing the miracle of human life is created?

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I guess the creation of everything in 6 days by an all powerfull being is a much more LOGICAL/BELIEVABLE reason huh. I mean the bible is a 2000 year old book. Two Thousand Year OLD book. It's a BOOK and everyone acts like its a manual or readme.txt file written by GOD's own hand and thrown outa the heavens . It's just like the question "which came first the chicken or the egg?" Well according to you god created the miracle of chicken out of thin air before the egg right? But is that logical? or could it be that life EVOLVED from single cell organisms and chickens are a subspecies of an earlier life form? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: Pascal\'s Wager...
 

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Making the jump from "science cannot adequately explain" to "it must be some unseen power that we cannot comprehend" is quite simply absurd.


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It makes so much more sense to believe rationality came from irrationality, personality from impersonality, meaning from meaninglessness and order from chaos.

Re: Another Question For Christians
 

Supposedly yes they will be puinished just the same unless your saved. But the longer I ponder this whole thing, the more I think its just mans way of sweetening the pot for after death. No one wants it to just be over, your worm food. Look at all the different variations of God, theres Budda, Ala, The Sun God, you name it, man has worshiped it because they want to believe in something with a higher power. Just an 11th grade educated thought.

Re: Pascal\'s Wager...
 

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Making the jump from "science cannot adequately explain" to "it must be some unseen power that we cannot comprehend" is quite simply absurd.


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It makes so much more sense to believe rationality came from irrationality, personality from impersonality, meaning from meaninglessness and order from chaos.

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Actually, I do believe that rationality sprung from the irrational -- that is, ironically, the logical explanation, but then I am a bit of a Kantian in that regard. I don't really know what you mean by the personal from impersonal. I believe each individual gives his own life meaning through his daily tasks and activities. In fact, giving meaning to one's life may be the highest achievement one can have. Also, I do think order can spring from chaos. That is what the human mind is capable of when used properly and not clouded by religious nonsense.

Re: Pascal\'s Wager...
 

There's no such thing as
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Just "looking around you"


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This is the myth of neutrality. All facts are interpreted facts. If you just look around yourself and conclude that God doesn't exist it's because you believe all sorts of irrational, unprovable concepts, such as something can come from nothing without cause or design.

Using the idea of "straight thinking" begs the question. What is straight thinking? If it's simple and obvious, why do so many straight thinkers disagree? (Cf. the history of philosophy).

Re: Another Question For Christians
 

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No one wants it to just be over, your worm food.

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Unless, of course, you enjoy a good tragicomedy.

Re: Pascal\'s Wager...
 

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Actually, I do believe that rationality sprung from the irrational -- that is, ironically, the logical explanation, but then I am a bit of a Kantian in that regard.


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You don't find this self-contradictory?

Though I can't prove it's wrong, if it's true, how can it not destroy all meaning and purpose in life, all morality, beauty and love? If we're just a random twitching of electrons, what difference does it make how they twitch?

Re: Pascal\'s Wager...
 

[ QUOTE ]
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Actually, I do believe that rationality sprung from the irrational -- that is, ironically, the logical explanation, but then I am a bit of a Kantian in that regard.


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You don't find this self-contradictory?

Though I can't prove it's wrong, if it's true, how can it not destroy all meaning and purpose in life, all morality, beauty and love? If we're just a random twitching of electrons, what difference does it make how they twitch?

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That is why I stated the highest achievement is to give meaning to one's existence. I see no reason to not believe what you stated above. But even given that perspective, the sun does not shine any less brightly, the flowers do not smell any less sweet, my feelings for those around me do not suddenly become less meaningful. If anything, all of the things I stated become even more vibrant.

Re: Pascal\'s Wager...
 

I have to admit that attitude is beyond me, totally. No hope, no meaning, no purpose - " a walking shadow, a poor player" indeed. "Out, out brief candle".

But for us
"There are pleasures in the right hand of God forever".

"We rejoice with joy unspeakable".

"No more tears, no more suffering."