View Full Version : Question: A Crooked/Bad Deck

05-20-2004, 05:51 PM
This is purely hypothetical, but in the history of the game, I'm sure this situation has come up a fair amount of times. In fact, back in school, we played cards and a guy showed down a pair of Kings, both of Spades. None of us had bothered checking the deck, it was a fresh unopened deck we had just purchased.

Now, onto my hypothetical question. Say you've got black JJ in a game of hold'em at your local cardroom. You flop undercards. Get a lot of action, by the river it is heads-up. You spike your set on the river, then realize that there are two Jack of spades. Let's say that you can guarantee your lone opponent folds for a bet. The pot is decent-sized at this point.

Which of these would YOU do:

1) Bring the error to the table's immediate attention, and have the hand voided.

2) Bet, claim the pot, then find an opportune moment (one that gets you back some money that you would lose) to let the table know that the deck is bad. (Basically, keep playing until it helps you to tell everyone that the deck is screwy.)

3) Ask for a set-up, which brings a fair deck into the game, and doesn't bring the problem to anyone's attention.

4) Something else.


05-20-2004, 09:59 PM
I'd make sure not to notice the duplicate jack. That's why I try to watch TV while playing so I'm not too involved with the game.

Someone will ask for a setup in 2 minutes anyhow.


Andy B
05-21-2004, 12:40 AM
Personally, I'd bring it to everyone's attention. The hand is null and all moneys returned. I think that this is the only ethical way to handle it. The golden rule is something I really believe in.

When purchasing a new deck, make sure it isn't a pinochle deck. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

05-21-2004, 03:11 PM
When purchasing a new deck, make sure it isn't a pinochle deck.

[/ QUOTE ]

No wonder we've been seeing so many Royals in our home game!! /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif

05-21-2004, 04:07 PM
This actually happened to me once at the local casino I play at. The King of Clubs got bent so they went and grabbed a new one from another deck, but the guy who grabbed it by accident grabbed the King of Spades. A few hands later the flop comes with the K /images/graemlins/spade.gif in it, and sure enough on the turn, another K /images/graemlins/spade.gif. It was good for a laugh, and a $50 comp for everyone at the table.

05-21-2004, 06:25 PM
Honestly, I'd probably take the pot and wait for someone else to mention it. Frankly, I'm sure one (or more) of your opponents has already realized this and is using it against you, so why not? If you were the one folding on the end, you'd never know. I'll probably catch a lot of flak for this, but that's how I feel.

As for fouled decks, I heard a story about a blank card in a game at the Commerce a few years ago. It had no front on it. Apparently, this thing stayed in play for quite awhile since the holder realized that it was a license to keep betting and raising. If you showed it down, the hand would be fouled and people got their money back. I don't know if this actually happened (maybe Snakehead knows), but I don't doubt it, nor do I doubt that the players kept it to themselves as long as possible.

05-21-2004, 10:42 PM
My favorite hold em hand:

Pair of Kings, Suited.

05-22-2004, 11:13 AM
1) this is not a poker decision, but a moral one.

If I ever found myself doing anything else I should seriously consider dropping poker as it obviously has a negative impact on my personality!

05-22-2004, 11:53 AM
I'm going to clarify my response a bit. If the deck is brand new (first one or two hands only), there's a high chance that the duplicate card was substitued by mistake, and then you have a moral choice as to what you're going to do. However, if this deck has been in play for any period of time, it should be more than a passing concern that you are being cheated. Thus, the best course of action is to take the pot, and rack up soon thereafter.

05-23-2004, 09:33 AM
Well, ethics aside, I believe that the standard rule in
cardrooms is that anyone playing in a hand when his or
her hand reveals that there is a duplicated card in the
deck, and continues the action as normal, must forefit the
pot at a showdown. So in the example you have given, if
you held J /images/graemlins/spade.gifJ /images/graemlins/club.gif and the J /images/graemlins/spade.gif hit the river,
and your bet was called, you would lose the pot. Of course,
if you have absolutely no morals, this would purely be a
pot odds situation (basically a bluff, as you cannot win in
a showdown). However, I would hope that everyone with whom
I am playing would bring it up before the hand went any