View Full Version : Bellagio 30-60

03-07-2002, 06:18 AM
How many of these mid week players are regulars, and how many are making money in the game? I was in vegas for a week around a year ago and played 15-30 at the belagio everyday. it seemed like the same crowd was waiting for the 30 game to get started each weekday morning if it wasn't already going. two of the faces i remember were a guy that sort of looks like roy cooke. in his 30s, wears a hat, has a mustache and for some reason i picutre him wearing a fishing vest or something. there was also an older guy with a poker hat and jacket, glasses that were half shaded, thin mustache, and he sort of looked like malin brandow. so are most of these guys just trading money every day or are there some players who can afford to lose at this level every day?


03-07-2002, 11:43 AM
Rob-90% of midweek (DAY) players at 15-30 are regulars. Some of us go to the 30-60 when it starts, some stay at 15-30. Many of the 30-60 day players are regulars who don't play 15-30 unless just desperate to get in action before the 30-60 starts. 30-60 regulars are tough to beat and most make money. Ditto for regular 15-30 players. Babe

03-07-2002, 12:04 PM
"30-60 regulars are tough to beat and most make money. Ditto for regular 15-30 players."

i think what rob was asking was how can all of you be making money in these games if youre playing mainly against other tough players all day long week after week? it doesnt seem like the occasional tourist would make these games good enough to make them worth sitting in.

my guess is that some of you appear tough and hide your losses well, but are actually break even, losing players, or maybe small winners who really show a profit on the weekends and high tourist traffic times. it doesnt make sense that that many players can be regularly beating these games.

from what ive seen in LA there are not a lot of winning players period. there are a lot of people playing mid limit hold em, but doesnt appear to be many tough pros beating the games consistently. i could think of a handful that ive identified as such.

03-07-2002, 02:55 PM
I hafta agree with Mike on this one. How can the same group of regulars ALL(or even most) be tough players AND winning players in a collection game? It just doesn't make sense. At the club I play, there is a group of regulars that play the higher limit games, but there are definite long-term winners and losers in that group, which you can spot by playing in the games. Even the occasional super-fish is not enough to make most of the players long-term winners, in my opinion.

One thing, though is that I believe that it is possible to make a tidy profit from playing above-average poker and having great game-selection, which may be overlooked. From my experience, high tourist times and weekends are not the only times that this is possible, simply because we live in LA, where a good game is fairly easy to find any day of the week.


03-07-2002, 06:13 PM
I often watch these games while waiting for my Stud games to start. I'm amazed by how many players take the flop. It is routinely 4-6 players per flop with many of them cold calling raises. Because of this, I often see hands like J9o being showndown from early position.

The Bellagio 30-60 often seems looser, though more aggressive, than the Mirage 6-12 or Bellagio 8-16. Keep in mind, I've only been observing the games.

03-08-2002, 08:05 AM
were you at hp on thursday?

03-08-2002, 07:19 PM
dude, dont scare me like that.....

03-09-2002, 02:43 PM
When you are "observing" - and so time is measured in time, not in hands - perhaps 85% of what you will see will be multi-way pots, simply because they occupy disproportionate chunks of time.

You go further, to the number of time hands are actually shown down, and there were most likley at least three callers before the flop, one obvious good hand, and a stealth better hand that somehow caught, but couldn't be read for the very reason that it was loose calling.

When somebody gets two pair with 74o, and beats me, I am much more likely to re-raise him all the way and make him prove it. Thus, these non-standard pre-flop calls create the longest hands, the most action to catch your eye, and the most likely showdowns so that you can see what someone actually held.


03-09-2002, 07:04 PM
While watching the 30-60 games, I usually watch just one game for an extended period of time (15-20 minutes) before leaving to get an update on my Stud game. Then, I often go back and watch the same game. I don't think it's an illusion.

03-10-2002, 12:11 AM
while I am not privy to the actual win/losses of all the regular 30-60 players, I know 4 who are making 50K+ a year - that ain't breakeven by any stretch. Similarly, I can only tell you by my everyday observations of the 15-30 game that the regular, daytime players grind it out amongst themselves and an occassional tourist or two. It seems that, on average, 7-8 locals are beating 1 local and 1-2 tourists a day from 12-4 pm when I typically play. When only 1 regular loses say 500 and it's divided 7 ways over 4 hours, that is over 1 sb/hr to "split" among the crowd. Yes...it evens out over the course of a week or month, and so in theory, all the locals should at least be breaking even. However, there are certainly days (like I had yesterday) when one makes 2 1/2 bb/hr with 6 locals in the game. I'm told that the evening games are better, but many "regulars" don't like these games because they prefer the tighter, more predictable play of the daytime crowd. The generally theory is : Better to make a little than to risk alot. Babe

03-10-2002, 07:50 PM

03-11-2002, 12:23 AM
No, but I play Stud at higher limits (15-30) than Hold'em (8-16 is the highest I've played).

03-11-2002, 08:16 AM
why do you play higher 15-30 stud but only 8-16 holdem?

03-11-2002, 08:47 AM
It is possible, yes, that if your hold'em observation occurs primarily on nights when you choose to play 15-30 stud, rather than 8-16 hold'em, that this is just the increased ambience of fish, and the corresponding thinner spreading of sharks, which first caused the 15-30 stud to even exist, being reflected back to you in another form, from another direction.

Meaning, maybe the hold'em is only good when the stud is even better, and that is exactly when the hold'em becomes good. As such, you could not, in theory, fall back on the good hold'em at such times when the stud alternative was not better. So, in theory, you could never behave rationally and enjoy a good hold'em game, and thus the opportunity to play a good hold'em game is an illusion, created when you leave out opportunity cost.


03-11-2002, 02:43 PM
Geez, I really like this. I guess I will not learn a second game.

03-11-2002, 08:48 PM
This question is easy.

I'm better at Stud than Hold'em. /images/smile.gif

But, I'm working to improve both my games.

03-11-2002, 08:50 PM
You didn't work hard enough on that post. 5% of it mades sense. Try again.

03-11-2002, 08:50 PM
I thought you were an excellent Roulette player.

03-11-2002, 09:33 PM
but he still gets to crash on the couch if he does some housework, right? :o)

03-11-2002, 09:58 PM

03-12-2002, 11:34 AM