View Full Version : Thoughts on this

03-18-2004, 08:38 PM
This is taken from the WPT website, just want some thoughts on this.

"At times you may have someone tell you something like 'Never call a bet with a pair that's not top pair: either raise or get out.' Advice like this will get you into lots of trouble. There is nothing wrong with calling with even bottom pair on the flop and proceeding cautiously from there. If you're waiting to flop top pair or better every time, you'll find yourself doing a whole lot of waiting and very little winning."

- Daniel Negreanu

03-18-2004, 08:52 PM
I love quotes like this

I love these quotes because they are obviously full of wisdom for good players. As we learn we realize that there are many times to call with bottom pair and we discover that if you always need the cards to win, you really can't win in the long run.

The beautiful part though is that fish read this and take something altogether different from it. They read this and think 'so what if I was raised preflop and it just came AKTs. I've got bottom pair with my T9o and I'll call a bet or two'.

Maybe I should feel sorry for the fish who don't understand. In a way I guess I do, but I'd probably feel worse if they all started beating me. A lot of advanced concepts in poker are so subtle that when weak players learn them they can actually play worse as a result.

Brad S

03-18-2004, 08:57 PM
yeah, its kind of a strange quote, I would think your ability to read players and bets would be key if you played in this way. You probably would also need to be able to lay down certain hands more frequently, I would suspect.

03-21-2004, 02:24 AM
I was thinking the same thing. This is insightful for advanced players, but very confusing and disasterous for beginners.


03-21-2004, 02:57 AM
Hiya Salt,

I think like so much expert advice, this only works for players who already have a lot of experience and skill. And in fact, that's why the very skillful NL players have such an advantage over the novices and even the average players. They have more options, and they can play more hands and flops profitably. But if a novice tries to play that way, they're going to lose a whole lot of money, and worse, probably find themselves unable to figure out why.


03-21-2004, 09:08 AM
yes I think if you know what you are doing there are some circumstances when this is true.

I don't know the rest of the article but I doubt he is talking about SnGs where most people make aggressive enough bets that calling with bottom pair is wrong.
The increased variance probably also makes it a big nono for SnGs.