View Full Version : Is this collusion?

03-15-2004, 07:17 PM
This happened a while ago and it really bugged me at the time, so I thought I would post it here:

Later stages of a Party NL single table sit n' go, four of us left, big stack is UTG and folds. I am the short stack on the button with KQo and go all in hoping to pick up the blinds. SB is taking a long time thinking and the BB types in something like "I'm folding, so call if you can". SB calls with A3o, hits an ace on the flop and I am out. I am furious and tell the big blind that stating his intentions is cheating, and he claims it is perfectly acceptable "like folding out of turn in a live game" /images/graemlins/mad.gif . I IM the floor, and they say they will look into it (I doubt they did a thing). Am I right to be upset?? All opinions welcome.

03-15-2004, 07:44 PM
This is unacceptable. If the floor didn't do anything about it, I would never play there again.

Blatent folding out of turn like that in a live game would be subject to a time penalty at least.

03-15-2004, 07:49 PM
No question, this is a clear case of collusion/cheating.
You can't fold out of turn online.
It's wrong to tell someone what's in your hand or what you intend to do.
Of course, he could lie about folding and then go all in! Strangely enough, that would not be cheating!!!

If someone did that to me at a real poker table, I'd pour my drink into their lap or over their head! /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

03-15-2004, 09:14 PM
Absolutely wrong, and yes it's collusion. Thanks for the laugh on contacting Pary floor. You may have noticed they gave up pretending they even research the complaints and have completely deactivated the call floorperson function.

03-15-2004, 11:02 PM
yet another reason not to play Party.
that is so fuckin lame. I would think in a live tourney, both players hands may be mucked, although I am not positive.

03-16-2004, 10:27 AM
It may not be "collusion" by normally accepted definition (to me collusion indicates that 2 or more players are working together, having made an agreement prior to the game) but it is definately cheating. I would follow up with getting this cheater kicked off the site.

03-16-2004, 05:51 PM
i know in a live limit game if you act out of turn you are held to your action. So if you would do something to indicate a call out of turn you can not fold once the bet gets to you, or visa versa. Though if you throw cards into the muck it's not enforcible.

03-16-2004, 09:58 PM
If they work together by prior agreement, that is CONSPIRACY.

COLLUSION is when they act together without any without any visible agreement.

03-16-2004, 10:08 PM
While I think this kind of carry on is stupid and against the essence of poker, I wouldnt say it was a pre-determined gang-up. I think players tend to take certain dislikings to others at the table, or likings to others. And in you raising all in, he was probably taking sides in a too obvious way. Yeah, those players wreck my head.

03-16-2004, 11:13 PM
yea, it's cheating. immediately report to management, including hand #. this is one of the very rare times you should tell both the cheaters that you are reporting their actions to management, most of the time you should keep it silent so as not to alert them. here, I would tell them about one second after I sent the email.


03-17-2004, 01:20 AM
Well, someone can correct me if they think I'm wrong, but only the BB was at fault in this case. The SB can say, 'Hey, i was going to call anyway.' And you can't prove otherwise. But the BB was definitely wrong.

03-17-2004, 05:31 AM
big blind obviously violates some kind of rule.
but for all you know sb was not part of it. even though sb gets information u cant blame him for BBs mistake and rule violation.

03-17-2004, 09:29 AM
kinda dirty for him to say that....at B+M it is unheard of, and if it does happen there, all hell would break loose.